With Windows Blue, Microsoft may (finally) do the right thing

[Night Hawk]

Well the main thing about all this is that the entire concept behind what went into 8 is focused on Tablet! What MS is doing with Blue is trying to find a compromise between Surface and desktop users running 8 so they are not completely stuck with a Surface Tablet gui to work with but even on tablet for new tablet users have some type of familiar grounds to start with.

The main problem however is similar to why Vista got a bad rap at first when MS failed to raise things to the actual minimum system specs required appeasing OEMs who didn't want to budge over shipping pcs with more then 512mb! 2-3gb was the max for most boards at the time with some making it to the 4gb top. Vista like 7 however needed to see the 2gb for x86 and 2.5+gb for x64 stated from the start!

With 8 MS failed from the start by not specifying 8 was geared for Tablet consumpsion while still providing a desktop release as well for each edition. They simply tossed 8 out at everyone as if they had been saying "take it like it is or else!" without regard to the negative reactions of it being seen as another "FLOP CITY" until the marketing results were in. "Oops we slipped! Have to clean this up fast somehow!"

 

[Faladu]

OK, I tried the Windows 8 trial on my old PC, been wiped and Linux Mint'd again since....

What struck me was the poor help offered by 8 to it's MASSIVE changes from previous versions when first using it, after install, not enough help, Metro was foreign totally and unfriendly as a result.

I installed a 3rd party start button app and even then I still hated it vs. what I am used to, so there was no way I would upgrade to that mess, atm, really no compelling reason to, any way.

 

[Night Hawk]

I had my look at the CP and then RP(buggy as heck) builds and simply called it a day! Even with the 3rd party apps you shouldn't be needing to start with it was obvious that 8 was geared for Tablet/Windows Phone and not addressing the needs of the desktop platform. That also explained why only two not all editions were being released on dvd! It wasn't meant but was still being made available for the desktop mostly to sooth the OEMs still wanting to sell new desktop models with "something" which it sure proved else to offer besides 7.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
C'mon -- we all know W8 has some flaws in it - but Windows 8.1 looks a whole new ball game so a lot of the current complaints will now be redundant. Let's wait and see --there really isn't any point in giving the CURRENT Windows 8 a test as it will be superceeded in about two weeks anyway so let's wait and see.

From what I've seen in some leaked builds which have made their way into the wild there definitely are improvements -- and to IE haters IE11 looks really good.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Iforgot]

Hi there
C'mon -- we all know W8 has some flaws in it - but Windows 8.1 looks a whole new ball game so a lot of the current complaints will now be redundant. Let's wait and see --there really isn't any point in giving the CURRENT Windows 8 a test as it will be superceeded in about two weeks anyway so let's wait and see.

From what I've seen in some leaked builds which have made their way into the wild there definitely are improvements -- and to IE haters IE11 looks really good.

Cheers
jimbo

Good enough to be used in a virtual pc?:sarc:

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
C'mon -- we all know W8 has some flaws in it - but Windows 8.1 looks a whole new ball game so a lot of the current complaints will now be redundant. Let's wait and see --there really isn't any point in giving the CURRENT Windows 8 a test as it will be superceeded in about two weeks anyway so let's wait and see.

From what I've seen in some leaked builds which have made their way into the wild there definitely are improvements -- and to IE haters IE11 looks really good.

Cheers
jimbo

Good enough to be used in a virtual pc?:sarc:

Hi there
That's way I'm running it - but the latest leaked build is a few weeks old and is only 32 bit. I'd wait for the real preview -- should be out in a couple of weeks - and hopefully if you are a TechNet / MSDN subscriber you might get it earlier --I look daily --it's not yet on TechNet though.

(I run it in VMware workstation but VMware player is good too and its FREE. Some people like Virtual box --haven't too much experience with that).

Note also that the start tiles and start button system has significantly changed in 8.1 - these changes aren't in the earlier leaked builds yet. Boot to desktop is also going to be in the 8.1 final - so you don't need to even BOTHER with the Metro GUI if you don't want to.

Installing classical desktop apps will generate ONE tile which you can then expand or not at will instead of the current stupid system whereby if you install a large application such as Adobe CS 6 suite or Visual studio (full version) every .exe file creates its own tile and sticks it all over the start screen making post install clean up very tedious.

So a lot of complaints I'm reading on both THIS (W7) and the W8 forums aren't actually applicable to 8.1 which is why I urge people to WAIT and see before rabbiting on about the current W8 which we all know has its fair share of flaws for desktop users.

With boot directly to desktop and custom toolbar for your programs you don't really need a menu any more and the number of keystrokes / mouse actions to start any application is the SAME as W7 with the classical menu.

For example - screenshots shown (From Leaked build --final will improve this though).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Night Hawk]

Like I was saying the CP and RP builds were tried out with the RP not so much the CP was what was found to be buggy well before the retail 8 arrived. According to some however the retail 8 sufffers a bit as well including what I was hearing from a security specialist who was advising on going with Vista or 7 for a security system with motion sensors and the works.

Likewise I suspect the company would also need a newer version of their software as many needed when Vista first arrived! 7 was found to be the champion for backward compatibility without fuss however!

The suspicion as far as Blue is that with all the negative feedback as well as negative publicity surrounding 8 as well as the slumped sales overall MS had to make a rather "fast move" to cover their... by making the Tablet gui look a little bit more like a conventional desktop to pass by the complainers! Some familiar reference points were needed even for the Tablet OS.

Now for any other improvements you have to remember 8 just like any previous version was due for fixes and other updates. Instead of an SP1 to correct the gui problems however MS decided on an 8 Part #2 or second edition! IE 11 is the go between from 10 that came with 8 and 12 for Win 9 or whatever comes next.

 

[alphanumeric]

All versions ran buggy on my two older desktop PC's. The most common problem was that random Apps would just stop working. It never seemed to be the same app twice. I tried a lot of things to fix it but always ended up reinstalling to get everything working again. After a while I just said why bother and put Windows 7 back on them. On the other side of the coin 8 runs great on my fairly new ASUS laptop, knock on wood. I'm going to try 8.1 on that. I'm actually looking forward to seeing if its any better. I found 8 a PITA to use on my desktop, not so much on my laptop. Having a touch pad may have something to do with that. I still much prefer Windows 7 over 8. If 8.1 doesn't do anything for me I may put 7 on my laptop too. If I run the beta I'll have to reinstall at some point anyway.

 

[Night Hawk]

For anyone with a touchpad or touchscreen capable laptop besides having a tablet they should be able to manage running 8. But for the masses who remain using a traditional desktop even some diehard XP fans the experience with 8 has been dismal where now the reluctant XP user who fist would only consider Vista is now seriously looking at 7!

What does that day? In particular a friend who's better half has a Vista laptop and when his old custom case fell apart my old Vista build needing a new board and supply saved the day! Well for six months until the main drive had to be replaced my friend seemed ok with Vista until some new problem came up that needs to be looked into.

For a fast pc he bought a new 8 laptop from someone else who was having touchpad problem with the cursor uncontrollable on the preinstalled 8 laptop! My friend's solution lately was to order a "7" retail dvd OEM 64bit along with another hard drive to swap 8 out for 7!

You can see the analogy there real fast when he got into 8 and hated it as well as the person who rushed into 8 without looking and then sold a newly bought laptop! At first he wented to wipe the 8 drive completely until being advised to keep the preinstall intact and simply swap the drive out using the new drive for 7 as well as having a spare laptop drive onhand!. He wouldn't be one that would be able to restore the preinstalled 8 anyways plus will be using a larger fastet HD!

 

[FerchogtX]

There is no way Windows 8 will make it on traditional market... all this thread, all the users over the net confirms this.

Tablets will see the light with Windows 8... Surface may get a place with it... but is definite that Windows 8 will never succeed on the PC and laptop market. Period...

They have two options, repent and accept their errors, or to stay with this narrowed vision... and sadly, die...
This last is the worst thing if you ask me, unless Linux devs find a way to run Adobe software and many stuff we actually need... until that, Apple (NOOOO) will remain in the way...

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...This last is the worst thing if you ask me, unless Linux devs find a way to run Adobe software and many stuff we actually need... until that, Apple (NOOOO) will remain in the way...

It would be wonderful if Adobe software would run on Linux but, considering how Adobe is leaning toward the same direction M$ is (the cloud), I'm not holding my breath. XI is the last version of Adobe Acrobat that will be available on disk. After that, it will be downloads only. The cloud won't be far behind (sigh!).

 

[Night Hawk]

...This last is the worst thing if you ask me, unless Linux devs find a way to run Adobe software and many stuff we actually need... until that, Apple (NOOOO) will remain in the way...

It would be wonderful if Adobe software would run on Linux but, considering how Adobe is leaning toward the same direction M$ is (the cloud), I'm not holding my breath. XI is the last version of Adobe Acrobat that will be available on disk. After that, it will be downloads only. The cloud won't be far behind (sigh!).

Say again? Adobe Reader for Unix Anyone for Adobe for Linux since Linux is Unix based to begin with. Adobe Flash Player being another one that is cross platform for Mac and Linux as well as Windows. But that's also the freebies for the freebies! Wine is the popular Linux emulator for things that run on Windows.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...This last is the worst thing if you ask me, unless Linux devs find a way to run Adobe software and many stuff we actually need... until that, Apple (NOOOO) will remain in the way...

It would be wonderful if Adobe software would run on Linux but, considering how Adobe is leaning toward the same direction M$ is (the cloud), I'm not holding my breath. XI is the last version of Adobe Acrobat that will be available on disk. After that, it will be downloads only. The cloud won't be far behind (sigh!).

Say again? Adobe Reader for Unix Anyone for Adobe for Linux since Linux is Unix based to begin with. Adobe Flash Player being another one that is cross platform for Mac and Linux as well as Windows. But that's also the freebies for the freebies! Wine is the popular Linux emulator for things that run on Windows.

I wasn't talking about the freebies. I use Adobe Acrobat XI Standard (and 9 before that), not the reader.

 

[Night Hawk]

I figured as much. But I wouldn't rule Adobe out of the list quite yet since other companies like Steam are now deciding to make a venture into the other OS! If MS keeps going off on wild tandrums in the tablet market many will likely consider swapping OSs as well as Linux having grown more popular over the years from the old "Geek's OS" labeling it once had.

Essentially it would be something to see more softwares developed by the retail companies for the other OS. But! You first have to establish a market place for such things! With Linux being open source however and not a regular retail giant's product(as if we didn't know who?!) things do take time to catch on however.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I figured as much. But I wouldn't rule Adobe out of the list quite yet since other companies like Steam are now deciding to make a venture into the other OS! If MS keeps going off on wild tandrums in the tablet market many will likely consider swapping OSs as well as Linux having grown more popular over the years from the old "Geek's OS" labeling it once had.

Essentially it would be something to see more softwares developed by the retail companies for the other OS. But! You first have to establish a market place for such things! With Linux being open source however and not a regular retail giant's product(as if we didn't know who?!) things do take time to catch on however.

Oh I haven't ruled Adobe out just yet. Adobe has almost seven years (when Win 7 reaches EOL) to make the venture, assuming they don't go totally cloud based. I don't mind downloading the software (much) but I draw the line at cloud based software.

 

[smarteyeball]

Honestly there is SFA that 8.1 brings to the table that 3rd party apps already do and do better.

Personally I love my customized 8. Stable, smooth and looks damn good.

The metro/modern argument is stale. It's the small things that add up to a greater whole that count and that's what some people are missing.

Tiny little things like Windows 8 Optimize Drive, that detects and then defrags HDD's and TRIM's SSD's automatically. No more remembering to disable defrag for SSD drives.

That's just one of many cool "under the hood changes" everyone is so vague about. Obviously not a reason to change by itself, but then that's just a single example. 8 is littered with gems like that.



Where MS truly failed with 8 was simply by not listening to it's customers. Breaking into an established tablet market was always going to be hard - but they made it harder by ignoring their demographic. Their stale attitude towards it's end users is the biggest thing MS needs to change.

8.1 is nothing more than a glorified service Pack that still doesn't address what customers want.

They also need to entice a lot more app developers. 8 shines on a tablet, but I wouldn't get one solely because the app store is laughable at the moment. And it looks to remain that way for the foreseeable future. The apps aren't great and the store is niggly to navigate.

But as a desktop OS, it's great. Easy to adapt once a few key features are fixed by 3rd party apps.

 

[Night Hawk]

The problem has never been about the "under the hood" improvements as any newer version would expect to see. As I was pointing out before 8 brings in some chenges and advancements for the however "stripped down" form of Windows in that MS took things out that people have come to expect to be there to substitute for what "Metro Wonderments"?

But as a desktop OS, it's great. Easy to adapt once a few key features are fixed by 3rd party apps.

Easily fixed by what??? "plenty of 3rd party apps"?!?!?! You SHOULDN'T HAVE TO have an immediate need for any! This is where the first Big Fail of 8 begins! They still took a Tablet touch&swipe type gui and substituted that for a newer "Desktop" design which would and could have easily seen the other hidden changes like the revamped Task manager, Lock screen, keeping even an updated form of Start/All Programs type of menu system working from a centralized point but went on tither abandoning what the desktop user requires by not even considering including any familiar what? OPTIONS!!!

Win 8 reminds of me of going to download something from ensonic like their version of Liberkey with a Yahoo toolbar or the latest Adobe with Chrome already checked off to install if not unchecked! The system security here often flags otherwise good programs when that's all you see to the polluted form as adware garbage put in quarantine. When seeing the order from MS for each of the Metro apps it reminds of those options for downloading phone apps!

And talk about Cloud based you may end up seeing some not so bad ideas while in the long run it probably wouldn't be suitable for the average layman to begin with right off the bat. First you have to get familiar with just what will be coming along as well as balancing things like convenience, accessibility, security, and of course actual application for just who?

They killed off Windows Messenger entirely being a long time option for Windows in favor of Skype a 3rd party venture there dumping Windows Live for Outlook. WLM of course was brought in once Vista saw the old Outlook Express ideas of having a built in email client dumped entirely. Well Vista still saw the renamed Windows Mail while you knew when WLM showed up the rest of the story. Outlook by the way no longer has the option to download and install WLM locally on the drive as WLM saw as a replacement for W.Mail in 7.

 

[jimbo45]

...This last is the worst thing if you ask me, unless Linux devs find a way to run Adobe software and many stuff we actually need... until that, Apple (NOOOO) will remain in the way...

It would be wonderful if Adobe software would run on Linux but, considering how Adobe is leaning toward the same direction M$ is (the cloud), I'm not holding my breath. XI is the last version of Adobe Acrobat that will be available on disk. After that, it will be downloads only. The cloud won't be far behind (sigh!).

Same for Photoshop and CS suite - the current CS6 suite / Photoshop CS6 are the the last downloadable versions --it's all subscription and cloud from here on in.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Sarris]

The Windows 8 issue is all about CONTROL. The new emphasis is the cloud. They want you to subscribe to programs instead of buy. Why sell you a program, when they can rent to you on a monthly basis, AND control all the content and customizations (if any). It's all about control and money. When installing Win 7, the first thing I do is start the administrator account, disable UAC, and turn off auto-update until, and if and when I decide to use them. Try this with Win 8..... you get an even shittier looking desktop without custom features. MS's way of saying their way or the highway. Screw them, I'm staying with 7 until something better comes along. Now..... if I could get AutoCad to run natively on Linux (wine is a PIA),..... hmmmm. Win 8 is a desktop disaster. I need my computer for work, not play. Could you just imagine trying to draw in AutoCad for 10 or so hours on a touch screen? Touch screen on my three monitors? 2000 = Vista = Win 8..... All crap waiting for a better version, and we finally have it in Win 7, and that's what I'm keeping.

 

[Night Hawk]

I can agree on the disable UAC and auto updates pain in der.... But many say 2000/2000 Pro were even better then XP which is not any surprise since XP was a rushed out replacement for the ME floppinstein. Vista needs to be got to know since that proved itself while unfortunately a much larger OS a much more secure and STABLE OS when compared nect to the XP mares of Blue Screen land!

That's funny how MS is moving you into subscription land while the av software used here is offering a one time "life time" subscription which is automatically updated with each new build that comes along. Now compare that to a software where you pay by the day in a sense to rent rather then figuratively own a piece since you never actually own any software you buy. You only own a license to use a software to begin with.