More Than 3 Out of 4 Enthusiasts Reject Windows 8

[mjf]

@Scoop
Given you say you are new to imaging experimenting with it using your spare HDDs is absolutely the best way to build confidence that you are using imaging software with some confidence. Macrium Reflect (free or paid) gets the thumbs up from many forum users and you will find tutorials here on it.
You need to understand the the difference between
(1) file/folder backup and
(2) System imaging

(1) is just for backing up your personal documents or non system installed files. I believe this is the backup gregrocker is referring to.
(2) gives you a full snapshot of every aspect of your drive - all the OS including installed programs.

With Windows native imaging and Macrium you can copy individual files from your image without affecting the image. It is a good idea to keep the size of your OS partition with installed programs smallish, say on the order of 50GB or even less. This makes regular imaging more manageble.

Large data files like photos, videos and music are best stored on a separate partition using a different backup strategy since many of these files won't change. Some form of incremental backup may be best here. However, be warned Windows inbuilt file/folder backup is slow as a wet wick.

 

[Cr00zng]

.....
I do agree re the boiling-water syndrome, and I have come in for some flak on EF for my dislike of the always-online, pay-as-you-go direction MS is heading, and my dislike/distrust of the 'cloud' but I've found ways to avoid, both in 8 and 8.1 So long as I have the choice, it's fine. But I'll dump MS like a hot spud the day I no longer have the choice.

The start up screen can be viewed as "OEM loaded apps"; all of them can be uninstalled and/or removed from the startup screen. You are correct that it is rather easy to avoid most, if not all preinstalled apps. Once it is cleaned up, it isn't that bad at all:



One can directly boot to the desktop to bypass the start up screen:



Pressing the "Windows" key on the keyboard switches between the desktop/start up screen. I find it easier to start the app by going to the startup screen with the "Windows" key and click on the app I want. BTW... Clicking on any of the apps in the startup screen also switches to the desktop. With the limited number of apps on this system it is a viable option. Although since the preloaded apps had been uninstalled/removed, there's plenty of room for more apps on the startup screen.

One of the eye candy feature is the automatic color of the taskbar and window' header, based on the desktop background picture. With a single picture, it does not matter much, but when the background images rotate, it is a nice eye candy...

 

[SIW2]

I just met a 4th person in real life who has (or had ) a win8 machine.

She was grateful to get the machine as a gift - she needed a laptop. But she doesn't like it because it has 8 on it. She couldn't return it, so has been putting up with for some time. I suggested she try classic shell. She was delighted to hear it might provide relief.

She is straight out of university, so not entirely dim or unducated. If she understood MS were trying to turn her into an anally probed guinea pig in the MS money pit, she didn't say so. Not exactly, anyway. ( Next time I see her I will enquire to see if she did understand what MS are up to )

Though I have only come across 4 people in real life with 8 machines - they all disliked it intensely. 3 have got rid of it completetely.

 

[gregrocker]

You need to understand the the difference between
(1) file/folder backup and
(2) System imaging

(1) is just for backing up your personal documents or non system installed files. I believe this is the backup gregrocker is referring to.
(2) gives you a full snapshot of every aspect of your drive - all the OS including installed programs.

Still OT but I should clarify:

The only backup image I ever use is the one created just after install and setup when it's running best. Later images can be subject to creeping corruption and not pristine installs.

For that reason after storing the "baseline image" I only concern myself with keeping the data backed up in real time. Since this is essentially sync'ing, and I have other PC's at different locations I want to have the same file set, the method I arrived at that works best doing all of these at once is Sync, Backup and Store your Files to the Cloud with Skydrive - Windows 7 Forums

 

[gregrocker]

Skydrive uses MS servers, in my case the same account as for my Hotmail. So deleting files is similar to deleting emails and about as final - although it does give you one chance to undelete when you delete them on the web.

If you delete the files using the Skydrive Windows app which keeps a hard copy of them on your HD for Sync'ing, it puts them in your Recycle Bin so they are retrievable just like any other file, while deleting them on the Skydrive server (cloud).

If you have them sync'd to any other PC, when that PC starts up they will also be deleted there but put in the Recycle Bin so they can be recovered.

So in the few cases where I've accidentally deleted a file I retrieved it from any Recycle Bin and it went back to the cloud and then back down to my other PC's when they came online. I also have a secondary backup method using SyncToy discussed in the tutorial-to-be.

 

[Wenda]

You need to understand the the difference between
(1) file/folder backup and
(2) System imaging

(1) is just for backing up your personal documents or non system installed files. I believe this is the backup gregrocker is referring to.
(2) gives you a full snapshot of every aspect of your drive - all the OS including installed programs.

Still OT but I should clarify:

The only backup image I ever use is the one created just after install and setup when it's running best. Later images can be subject to creeping corruption and not pristine installs.

For that reason after storing the "baseline image" I only concern myself with keeping the data backed up in real time. Since this is essentially sync'ing, and I have other PC's at different locations I want to have the same file set, the method I arrived at that works best doing all of these at once is Sync, Backup and Store your Files to the Cloud with Skydrive - Windows 7 Forums

Good point, Greg, you are correct.

I didn't mention in my earlier post, but I keep a 'pristine' image with the OS and drivers/updates only, another with drivers and all programs installed but nothing else, and the third, 'working' image of my setup as it is currently with all games, VMs etc installed. None are, or will be, stored in the cloud.

The second image is the one that'll be updated to 8.1 should I decide to install the final release.

No data whatsoever is ever kept on the C: drive.

That way, my bum is covered no matter what the eventuality.


Wenda.

 

[lehnerus2000]

Similar System

Still OT but I should clarify:

The only backup image I ever use is the one created just after install and setup when it's running best. Later images can be subject to creeping corruption and not pristine installs.
...

Good point, Greg, you are correct.

I didn't mention in my earlier post, but I keep a 'pristine' image with the OS and drivers/updates only, another with drivers and all programs installed but nothing else, and the third, 'working' image of my setup as it is currently with all games, VMs etc installed.
...
No data whatsoever is ever kept on the C: drive.

I use a similar system.

I create an initial backup OS image, "install + updates" with no programs.
I create another backup OS image, after I have installed my drivers and standard programs.

From then on, I create backup images pre-"Patch Tuesday".

 

[mjf]

You need to understand the the difference between
(1) file/folder backup and
(2) System imaging

(1) is just for backing up your personal documents or non system installed files. I believe this is the backup gregrocker is referring to.
(2) gives you a full snapshot of every aspect of your drive - all the OS including installed programs.

Still OT but I should clarify:

The only backup image I ever use is the one created just after install and setup when it's running best. Later images can be subject to creeping corruption and not pristine installs.

For that reason after storing the "baseline image" I only concern myself with keeping the data backed up in real time. Since this is essentially sync'ing, and I have other PC's at different locations I want to have the same file set, the method I arrived at that works best doing all of these at once is Sync, Backup and Store your Files to the Cloud with Skydrive - Windows 7 Forums

I'm not being narky but I couldn't disagree more strongly.
I have a base line image for all my PCs and have never reverted to them once. I recommend you keep images spanning back a few months and you will be safe against most trouble. I have multiple third party software that continually provides fixes/upgrades.

If I need to go back to my base image I may as well do a clean install. In practice this has worked well for me.

 

[Dallas 7]

Still OT but I should clarify:

The only backup image I ever use is the one created just after install and setup when it's running best. Later images can be subject to creeping corruption and not pristine installs.

That's what I do as well greg. In fact I have two such images, one on each of two separate HDD's, just for safe keeping.
Each image contains all my software and all MS updates at that time, including SP1. I use USB 3.0 flash drives for all my photos, docs, favs, etc.

 

[mjf]

Choose your own solution but more recent images have saved me much effort in the past. I consider relying on a "pristine" image alone illogical. I am speaking from experience.
Think it through and take the advice you consider sensible and best of luck.

 

[Dallas 7]

Choose your own solution but more recent images have saved me much effort in the past. I consider relying on a "pristine" image alone illogical. I am speaking from experience.
Think it through and take the advice you consider sensible and best of luck.

mjf it's not illogical at all, it's just a matter of priorities. Both ways have their good points. Not sure what you call "pristine", but if you read my post, my images include all my software, all drivers, and all the MS updates at that time. That doesn't leave too much to catch up on, and 3.0 flashdrives make short work of downloading data.

Granted, periodic imaging indeed will save you some time, and if time is of the essence I understand your reason for doing it that way.
In my case, saving a little time is not the driving factor, and I know my image has not been subjected to "creeping corruption" as greg put it.
It's just a matter of personal preference is all.

 

[cyrilhubert]

I am still using Win 7 Home Premium as I find Win 8 difficult to navigate. Love Win 98 SE to ME, toyed with XP Pro.
Good for full registry backup unlike Win7.

 

[mjf]

mjf it's not illogical at all, it's just a matter of priorities. Both ways have their good points. Not sure what you call "pristine", ..............
In my case, saving a little time is not the driving factor, and I know my image has not been subjected to "creeping corruption" as greg put it.
It's just a matter of personal preference is all.

First look "illogical" up in a dictionary. The use of the word "pristine" was used from the comment of a previous member - the meaning is obvious. It means the first image after a clean install with the then applications installed.
As to gregrocker's "creeping corruption" - I haven't much of a clue what this supposed to mean. I personally run malware scans using a number of reputable software all the time.

Let us just agree to disagree. I along with gregrocker are not the font of all knowledge. However, regular imaging (at least once a month) would be recommended by many experienced members of this forum. To keep one base or pristine image (call it what you will) alone is illogical and poor practice.
Do what suits you.
PS: this discussion probably should be in the backup & Restore sub forum.

 

[gregrocker]

I don't use images to do what System Restore is meant to do and does fine. I use images to apply my customized install to the target or any other PC in minutes.

Creeping corruption is the main reason many enthusiasts in days of yore did regular reinstalls and still do. With a baseline image you get your customized reinstall in its untouched or pristine state.

Nothing illogical about that, just another way of doing things.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I don't use images to do what System Restore is meant to do and does fine. I use images to apply my customized install to the target or any other PC in minutes.

Creeping corruption is the main reason many enthusiasts in days of yore did regular reinstalls and still do. With a baseline image you get your customized reinstall in its untouched or pristine state.

Nothing illogical about that, just another way of doing things.

I've had bad luck with System Restore not working so I prefer images. Of course, YMMV.

I totally agree about using a baseline image to go back to square one (1.5?). It saves having to do a clean install and apply all the tweaks all over again. Although I have baseline images for both of my machines, I've yet to actually use them since both are still pretty new.

 

[lehnerus2000]

I've had System Restore failures

I've had bad luck with System Restore not working so I prefer images. Of course, YMMV.

I've had ~30% of System Restore attempts fail.
Most of those were on XP though.

I've had 2 failures on W7.

 

[Indianatone]

I've got heaps of OSes, some MS, many not. Some are open-source, others are not. Some are free, some are not.

But none of them are pirated. I have legitimate product-keys for all my MS stuff except for the really old MS products which don't require a product key. I still have the original disks for them, so I'm covered there as well.

So, if I can manage to run all those, legally, one would think someone would be able to manage one OS without needing to pirate it. It's not as if legal copies, especially of XP, are that hard or expensive to source.

It can't be that hard. Surely.


Wenda.

Likewise. Everything I have is paid for. No pirated stuff. I don't want any of the nasty little surprises that come free of charge. If you can't afford to purchase a M$ OS there are plenty of Linux Distros that will work on XP and older machines. A good and worthwhile upgrade for XP users with older machines that cannot run 7 due to no drivers for old AGP video cards etc or limited RAM.

 

[whs]

I've had bad luck with System Restore not working so I prefer images. Of course, YMMV.

I've had ~30% of System Restore attempts fail.
Most of those were on XP though.

I've had 2 failures on W7.

There seem to be many different reasons for restore points to either disappear or to fail. If you depend on restore points, you are liable to get stuck. That's why I prefer images that I can manage myself.

 

[Layback Bear]

When I tinker I use restore points when needed and with Windows 7 I haven't had any problems.

 

[mjf]

I gave System Restore away a long time ago because they are simply flaky. System imaging is robust and efficient provided you have sensible sized OS partitions. I strongly recommend regular imaging. Even if System Restore worked properly would it help with a malware problem?
Also disabling system restore is recommended practice on an SSD.
It takes me less than12 minutes to do a system image and that is the way I will ensure I have a reliable fallback position. To newcomers treat system imaging as your best get out of jail card.

I'm interested in more information on "creeping corruption".