Catastrophic Crash After Removing Unspecified Device

[michael diemer]

This has now happened twice, each time necessitating a complete reinstall. My OS is W7 PRO. I have various things plugged into it, such as a cordless mouse/keyboard combo, two "dongles" for music libraries, a Wireless USB device, and I connect/disconnect a Glyph external hard drive, which is connected to two different computers, via USB to the one in question; via firewire to the other. I have to disconnect the USB line on the new computer to get the other computer to recognize the drive. I also trade the mouse dongle back and forth between the two computers, so I can use the same mouse. I use a wired keyboard however for the other computer. I also occasionally back up to a Passport external drive.

Yes, I had a system image, but it failed to install. All attempts at repair failed. The error message I get is that Windows failed to start, and it could be due to a hardware or software device which was disconnected.

Why does this happen? Is there any way to prevent it, or recover from it if it happens again?

I have already made another image, this time using Windows' own utility. I had used Clonezilla for the old one, as it works with both Linux and Windows. I also use Macrium sometimes.

thanks,

michael

 

[michael diemer]

I am wondering if this was caused by Windows Update? I have been doing Security Only updates, and it happened after the most recent one.

 

[Megahertz07]

"The error message I get is that Windows failed to start..."
Can you explain in more detail the problem you're facing?
It can't boot or it boot's and crash?
Do you have a win 7 installation disk?

 

[mrjimphelps]

If you often unplug your hard drive without first "unmounting" it, you may have several orphaned devices listed in Device Manager. These orphaned devices may be causing the crashes.

The first thing you need to do is to run Device Manager. Go to the top entry in the right panel, right-click, and choose "Show Legacy Devices". Now look in the right panel at the USB devices. For each device which has an error marker by it, right click on it, and uninstall it. Now reboot the computer.

From this point forward, whenever you want to unplug your external hard drive from this computer, first right-click on its icon in File Manager, then choose Eject. Do not unplug the drive till Windows tells you that it is safe to do so.

If you have a document open that is stored on the external drive, you must first close the document before ejecting the drive.

 

[michael diemer]

"The error message I get is that Windows failed to start..."
Can you explain in more detail the problem you're facing?
It can't boot or it boot's and crash?
Do you have a win 7 installation disk?

It failed to start at all. I tried the installation disk that came with it, also a repair disk I had made, albeit quite awhile ago. The repair disk said it could not be used with this version of Windows, which is strange as it was made with and for this computer.

 

[michael diemer]

If you often unplug your hard drive without first "unmounting" it, you may have several orphaned devices listed in Device Manager. These orphaned devices may be causing the crashes.

The first thing you need to do is to run Device Manager. Go to the top entry in the right panel, right-click, and choose "Show Legacy Devices". Now look in the right panel at the USB devices. For each device which has an error marker by it, right click on it, and uninstall it. Now reboot the computer.

From this point forward, whenever you want to unplug your external hard drive from this computer, first right-click on its icon in File Manager, then choose Eject. Do not unplug the drive till Windows tells you that it is safe to do so.

If you have a document open that is stored on the external drive, you must first close the document before ejecting the drive.

Hmm, you may have something there. I don't always remember to use the ejection utility, especially if I'm in a hurry. Would I need to use it for everything that is plugged in? For example, the mouse/keyboard dongle? Since I've rebuilt my system, I'm not trading that back and forth. I'm using a wired keyboard and mouse for my old computer, and keeping the dongle on the new one.

I'm a bit reluctant to follow your advice. I spent the past week getting this computer back to where I can use it, which included reinstalling windows and a bunch od music software. I use it exclusively to compose music. Yesterday was the first day in over a week I could actually compose. I don't want to break it again. For example, I do see that the dongles I use for two of my music libraries have errors. But if I uninstall the drivers, they won't work, and I won't be able to use my computer again. It's a big risk! Although I made an image last night, so theoretically I should be OK. But the last image I made didn't work. Granted, I used Clonezilla, where this one I made with Windows. But I look at system images as a last resort. They may or may not work. at this point, I don't know what to do. Maybe upgrade to 8.1? Or would I have the same problems?

 

[mrjimphelps]

You only need to "eject" (unmount) drives (external hard drive, flash drive, etc); you don't need to do that with printers, mice, and other USB devices.

 

[michael diemer]

You only need to "eject" (unmount) drives (external hard drive, flash drive, etc); you don't need to do that with printers, mice, and other USB devices.

OK, that's more encouraging. So do you think I should do the uninstall thing then for my external drives? I've already decided to keep my small USB drive, which I had been using to save my music on, away from this computer, and use instead the Glyph 500GB. It saves much faster, and I just used check-disk to scan and repair it so it's working smoothly. The other external drive is the passport, which is 3 TB.

 

[Megahertz07]

External HDD are very sensitive to shock damages. On the /hardware-devices of this forum you going to find hundreds of cases of external drives that failed. And I'm not talking about logical failures that can be fixed by check disk or a format. I'm talking about hardware permanent failures.
Don't trust them to keep data you can't loose.
As you have a Desktop, buy an internal drive to do the backups.

 

[mrjimphelps]

OK, that's more encouraging. So do you think I should do the uninstall thing then for my external drives? I've already decided to keep my small USB drive, which I had been using to save my music on, away from this computer, and use instead the Glyph 500GB. It saves much faster, and I just used check-disk to scan and repair it so it's working smoothly. The other external drive is the passport, which is 3 TB.

If by "uninstall" you mean the procedure I described when you want to unplug an external drive, yes. You should always do that.

Also, I agree with what Megahertz07 said about external USB hard drives being unreliable. I have had two fail, and two friends of mine each had an external USB hard drive failure. Here's how I worked around that problem: I got a long SATA data cable and a long SATA power cable, I plugged them in inside of my computer case, and I extended them out of the case. Now, whenever I want to do a backup, I power down, connect my internal SATA hard drive to the cables, power up, then do a backup. I then go through the same steps to remove the drive when the backup is done. In this way, I have all of the advantages of both an internal drive (speed, reliability) and an external drive (portability).

(I keep the internal drive stored in a static bag when not in use.)

 

[michael diemer]

External HDD are very sensitive to shock damages. On the /hardware-devices of this forum you going to find hundreds of cases of external drives that failed. And I'm not talking about logical failures that can be fixed by check disk or a format. I'm talking about hardware permanent failures.
Don't trust them to keep data you can't loose.
As you have a Desktop, buy an internal drive to do the backups.

That's good to know. I've been lucky with the Glyph. I've had it for several years, but then it's a premium drive. The passport though is just your basic WD drive. So far, so good, but I'll consider your advice on getting an internal drive for backups. I have plenty of slots available.

 

[michael diemer]

If by "uninstall" you mean the procedure I described when you want to unplug an external drive, yes. You should always do that.

Also, I agree with what Megahertz07 said about external USB hard drives being unreliable. I have had two fail, and two friends of mine each had an external USB hard drive failure. Here's how I worked around that problem: I got a long SATA data cable and a long SATA power cable, I plugged them in inside of my computer case, and I extended them out of the case. Now, whenever I want to do a backup, I power down, connect my internal SATA hard drive to the cables, power up, then do a backup. I then go through the same steps to remove the drive when the backup is done. In this way, I have all of the advantages of both an internal drive (speed, reliability) and an external drive (portability).

(I keep the internal drive stored in a static bag when not in use.)

Actually, I was referring to uninstalling the drivers, as you described earlier, then restarting computer, presumably so that Windows would then find and reinstall them correctly.

I definitely will be properly disconnecting all external drives from now on.

 

[michael diemer]

My Glyph ext drive does not require drivers (pug and play?). I plan on keeping it connected. If I need to use it with the other computer, I will shut down my music rig and then disconnect it.

As to the mouse dongle, I understand you to mean that it's ok to swap it back and forth? No need to use the eject utility?

My take away from this is that it looks like it was one of my external drives that caused the problem. If I am careful not to disconnect them while machine is running, I should be OK, right?

 

[Megahertz07]

The only reason to "disable" a external drive before removing it is that it may be writing data to the disk. If you pull it out it can interrupt a writing operation and the data and allocation table is corrupted.
On a Mouse, keyboard etc this doesn't happen as there is no data being written on it.

 

[mrjimphelps]

You don't need to uninstall any drivers when you disconnect any external drive. What you need to do is unmount or eject the drive ("unmount" and "eject" are two different ways of describing the same thing). There are two ways to unmount/eject a drive:
(1) Right-click on the drive icon in File Manager and choose unmount or eject (one of those words will be listed).
(2) Click on the "eject media" icon which is by the clock, then click on the item you want to eject/unmount in the list it shows you.

After you have done either of the above steps, wait till Windows tells you it is safe to unplug the device, and then unplug it.

What if Windows tells you that the drive is in use? In that case, you should not unplug it; rather, you should close whatever program is using the drive, so that Windows can then release its hold on the drive, thereby making it safe to unplug. But if you can't free up the drive no matter what you try, then the safest way to unplug the drive is to first log out of Windows, then power down the computer, then unplug the drive.

Of course, you could simply unplug the drive without first unmounting it. But doing so will create an orphaned listing in Device Manager. One or two orphaned listings probably aren't a problem; but if there are a lot of them, you could have problems. But I prefer not to have any orphaned listings, so I will follow the above steps every time I want to unplug an external drive.

(I'll bet there were lots of orphaned listings when you first posted about your computer crashing whenever you would unplug the drive.)

Now, what about the mouse dongle? The rule is, if you click on the "eject media" icon (by the clock), and the mouse dongle shows up in the list of devices, you should click on the listing for the mouse dongle in order to "unmount" it before you unplug it. But if it doesn't show up in this list, then you can unplug it at any time without first "unmounting" it. If the mouse dongle doesn't appear in this list, then it's not going to appear in the future, so you can safely unplug it whenever you want without checking this list. But if it appears in this list once, it will appear every time; therefore, you will know that you have to unmount it every time you want to unplug it.

 

[michael diemer]

The only reason to "disable" a external drive before removing it is that it may be writing data to the disk. If you pull it out it can interrupt a writing operation and the data and allocation table is corrupted.
On a Mouse, keyboard etc this doesn't happen as there is no data being written on it.

Thanks, appreciate the help. One more question: I forgot to mention the other thing I swap between the two computers. I use an external audio interface, a Steinberg UR-22. It's my "soundcard." It's only hookup to the computer is a USB line. My speakers plug into it, as well as my midi keyboard. It enables me to use my music DAW, Reaper, but it also gives me premium sound on my old computer. I almost never have both "awake" at the same time; I usually put one to sleep or shut it down before using the other. But sometimes I do, for example if I'm updating on one while working on the other. I have my monitor plugged in to both, I just hit a button on it and it switches to the other computer. Would this also be a problem? It doesn't involve writing data, so I would think not, but what do you think?

 

[michael diemer]

You don't need to uninstall any drivers when you disconnect any external drive. What you need to do is unmount or eject the drive ("unmount" and "eject" are two different ways of describing the same thing). There are two ways to unmount/eject a drive:
(1) Right-click on the drive icon in File Manager and choose unmount or eject (one of those words will be listed).
(2) Click on the "eject media" icon which is by the clock, then click on the item you want to eject/unmount in the list it shows you.

After you have done either of the above steps, wait till Windows tells you it is safe to unplug the device, and then unplug it.

What if Windows tells you that the drive is in use? In that case, you should not unplug it; rather, you should close whatever program is using the drive, so that Windows can then release its hold on the drive, thereby making it safe to unplug. But if you can't free up the drive no matter what you try, then the safest way to unplug the drive is to first log out of Windows, then power down the computer, then unplug the drive.

Of course, you could simply unplug the drive without first unmounting it. But doing so will create an orphaned listing in Device Manager. One or two orphaned listings probably aren't a problem; but if there are a lot of them, you could have problems. But I prefer not to have any orphaned listings, so I will follow the above steps every time I want to unplug an external drive.

(I'll bet there were lots of orphaned listings when you first posted about your computer crashing whenever you would unplug the drive.)

Now, what about the mouse dongle? The rule is, if you click on the "eject media" icon (by the clock), and the mouse dongle shows up in the list of devices, you should click on the listing for the mouse dongle in order to "unmount" it before you unplug it. But if it doesn't show up in this list, then you can unplug it at any time without first "unmounting" it. If the mouse dongle doesn't appear in this list, then it's not going to appear in the future, so you can safely unplug it whenever you want without checking this list. But if it appears in this list once, it will appear every time; therefore, you will know that you have to unmount it every time you want to unplug it.

This is really great advice, I'm going to print it out so I have it permanently. I'll check my various devices to see if they show up in the Eject utility.

I should point out that this problem arose because of the need to not only save Windows backups, but to save my music projects on something other than my C drive. I usually use a usb thumb drive, but I periodically also save on the Glyph drive. I also use Box.com so I have offsite as well. And I sometimes need to install something I have saved on the Glyph, like a synth for example, on the music computer. In other words, the Glyph functions as a transfer device between the two computers. I guess I just need to be more careful about disconnecting it. It's only a problem because in order for the old computer to see the Glyph, it has to be disconnected from the music computer.

 

[michael diemer]

Well, I have discovered that the UR-22 audio interface shows up in the Eject utility. So, that could be the issue, in addition to the external drives. From now on I will unmount it before disconnecting.

Again, thanks for all the help.

 

[michael diemer]

A related question on this: What if my music computer is asleep? Can I unplug the USB for my audio interface then? This computer shuts down so completely when asleep, you'd swear it was actually shut down. Otherwise, if I want to hear sound on my old one (which is what I surf the net on), I have to wake up the music computer, log in, unplug the device (properly of course), and then put it to sleep again.

 

[michael diemer]

I have narrowed the problem down to the Audio Interface (Steinberg UR-22). The external hard drives are set to Quick Remove, so they aren't the problem. The UR-22 does not have this option, but on checking it out, I discovered a line of text that said "Safe Removal", and the word "True" over it. So that appears to need safe removal. Odd, since it doesn't involve ant data transfer, at least as far as I know.

I'm still wondering if I need to "eject" it before putting the computer to sleep. I like to sleep it vs. shut it down, because my music program takes a long time to open up after a full start, but opens quickly after the computer wakes up.