Win "10" and "11"

[SCANNERMAN777]

Ha, ha ha ha! What a wonderful story and such a sweet hack too! I love it when people keep those PCs out of the land fills and functioning efficiently! Great job!

 

[MisterEd]

One thing you can't get around is hardware compatibility. I have two old computers that are about 20 years old. They have AMD Athlon XP 2400+ and AMD Athlon XP 2800+ CPUs. The problem with them neither supports SSE2. They both run Windows XP great. One of them I installed Windows 7. It runs Windows 7 OK except for one thing. Starting in 2019 most Windows 7 updates assumed the CPU supported SSE2. Such updates would start but would soon fail. Windows 7 would continue to run OK just less these updates.

Note AMD CPUs did not support SSE2 until the introduction of the Athlon64 in 2003. The Intel Pentium 4 CPUs started supporting SSE2 in 2000 or 2001.

This shows a computer with either an Intel or AMD CPU without SSE2 support will probably never be able to run Windows 10 or 11. Even then older computers may have other limitations such as driver support. The closer the computer's hardware's release is to that of the O/S the better hardware support it will have.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

Yeah, 20 years is generally about where I draw the line on PC repair. This doesn't mean that the parts can't be cannibalized, cases modded, and e-waste reduced. Even then some of these can be used as superficial e-machines for people who just want to browse and have email. In cases like that I recommend using Linux. Some of those older drivers can be tricky to get but almost always they can be found. Older PCs can fit the bill with older folks who aren't that PC literate and simply want to read emails or type texts to print, toddlers just beginning to learn how to use a PC, and young explorers getting acquainted with hardware.

 

[townsbg]

I have 3 computers (excluding my employer owned work laptop with 10 on it). My newest was built in 2020 and was designed to be compatible with 2012 (it's a mini-server) so I have 2012 R2 on it. My primary is 10-11 years old and has 8.1 on it. I find 8.1 to be tolerable with open shell so I don't regret going that route. It has a boat load of integrated drivers in it, I didn't even have to go hunt down a dedicated graphics drivers. Also there's native support for usb 3. My third is about 20 yo with 2003 on it. I keep that in a box. It's weird to think that 20 years old is early 2000's. 98 is going to be 25 years old this year in only 4 months.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

Where did the time go?

I have 3 computers (excluding my employer owned work laptop with 10 on it). My newest was built in 2020 and was designed to be compatible with 2012 (it's a mini-server) so I have 2012 R2 on it. My primary is 10-11 years old and has 8.1 on it. I find 8.1 to be tolerable with open shell so I don't regret going that route. It has a boat load of integrated drivers in it, I didn't even have to go hunt down a dedicated graphics drivers. Also there's native support for usb 3. My third is about 20 yo with 2003 on it. I keep that in a box. It's weird to think that 20 years old is early 2000's. 98 is going to be 25 years old this year in only 4 months.

I have at least ten lap tops and desktops utilizing Win 10 as the main OS in my household. My newest build was also in 2020, although I have a laptop that is a bit newer. The laptop was upgraded to Win 11 and the transition posed little difficulty. I don't use my laptop much except maybe when I run diagnostics or occasionally when I travel. My home server/work station/NAS aka all-purpose beast of burden, running four different RAID arrays and Thunderbolt etc. runs both Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 on the same system board. My Windows 7 has never run better. I've had to re-install Windows 8.1 more times on that unit than I care to remember, but because I have everything backed up data loss is not much of a concern. The expenditure of time and energy certainly has been an issue for me with Windows 8.1, not only on that PC, but on a myriad of others as well. In this regard I would say that Windows 10 has been an improvement but only at the expense of other things that I'm not about to go into in this missive. The only driver issue that needed manual installation at the time I built my BOB was when I had to install my LSI RAID card (which eventually cratered simply from massive over-usage) I built that toy back in 2014 although I've made several modifications since, including upgrading from a 5960X to a 6900K Intel CPU. (Intel Core i7-6900K Review | PC Gamer). I find it hard to believe this build is already nearly ten years old and it has served me well.

Native USB 3.1 has always been a feature on my BOB, which boasts an X99 E-WS USB 3.1 system board. Once I upgraded to the 6900K it ran like an entirely new PC and hasn't presented me much difficulty since, despite it being used for so much on the home network. I suspect that it will be good for another ten years or so. Drivers have not really been a serious problem for me with Windows 7. They are generally easy to locate and they generally work well. Microsoft also provides generic drivers for Windows 7 and one moves on from there. Of course, now that Windows 7 has met EOL, I use it more of a novelty; but to be honest, IMO, I have yet to find a more reliable, stable, dependable, and non-intrusive OS compliments of Microsoft. I wish I could find that sort of reliability in these tablet-based operating systems that they have come out with hence, but so far that has not happened. :::sigh:::

Oh, yes. I also have a 22 year old Dell Dimension actively running with a Win 10 32 bit OS which works surprisingly well, given its age. We use it as a guest PC. Once all the fearware and nonsensical pop ups were dealt with it runs like a charm and still updates. I gave away its twin to a little girl that didn't have a PC but wanted one. She reports that hers is running fine as well. Three of my daughters grew up with this old Dell Desktop so it has become sort of a family member. Every once in a while one of the girls will give it a go for old times sake and giggle. (Each owns their own desk top and laptop.) My youngest said to me the other day, "Dad, this old thing just doesn't die!". I told her, "Yeah, they just don't make stuff like they used to." That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
:focus:

 

[MisterEd]

Oh, yes. I also have a 22 year old Dell Dimension actively running with a Win 10 32 bit OS which works surprisingly well, given its age. We use it as a guest PC. Once all the fearware and nonsensical pop ups were dealt with it runs like a charm and still updates. I gave away its twin to a little girl that didn't have a PC but wanted one. She reports that hers is running fine as well. Three of my daughters grew up with this old Dell Desktop so it has become sort of a family member. Every once in a while one of the girls will give it a go for old times sake and giggle. (Each owns their own desk top and laptop.) My youngest said to me the other day, "Dad, this old thing just doesn't die!". I told her, "Yeah, they just don't make stuff like they used to." That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
:focus:

Are you sure that Dell PC is 22 years old? The first Pentium 4 CPU that supported SSE2 came out in I think 2001.

In general, Windows 10 runs on all computers that are compatible with Windows 8.1. Therefore, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 hardware requirements include CPUs that support PAE (physical address extension), SSE2 (supplementary instruction sets), and NX (no execute bit).

Does Windows 10 require the CPU to support PAE?
Does Windows 10 require the CPU to support PAE? | www.infopackets.com

Now if you said the computer was 15 years old and worked with Windows Vista that would make even more sense. I have found that is about where the boundary was between computers that worked with Windows 10 and those that didn't.

BTW, even Windows 7 updates starting in 2019 failed unless the CPU supported SSE2. Also, about that time more and more software started issuing new versions that required SSE2 support.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

*correction*

You know, I just did some digging and you're correct. My memory isn't what it used to be. I'm getting two PCs confused. The PC I'm talking about is not a Dell Dimension. That was the PC I had before I replaced it with a Dell Inspiron 530. Good call. Both of them were mini towers, approx the same height, but the Inspiron came with a 2.4 GHz duo core CPU which I upgraded later to a 2.67? GHz chip. I purchased the Dell Dimension in 2004 but the Inspiron was purchased directly from Dell in 2007 and yes, it came with Windows Vista. https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ca/product-support/product/inspiron-530/docs So yes, that was my bad. The PC is only 16 years old! My math was waay off and I apologise. She's still got four good years left in her. That dear old machine has been passed down from daughter to daughter to daughter. It ran Vista with me, ran Win 7 with the wife, then got passed to the daughter and later got upgraded yet again to 8.1 and passed to her sister next in line, afterwhich it was upgraded to Win 10 and passed to the youngest sister, and now it simply sits as a guest computer. It's surprizingly snappy with Win 10 on an SSD and only 4 GB of RAM. You can play Mine Craft on it but I wouldn't really call it a gaming PC.

Yeah, as I stated earlier, after two decades it gets tough to salvage a PC for practical use.

Does Windows 10 require the CPU to support PAE?
Does Windows 10 require the CPU to support PAE? | www.infopackets.com

Now if you said the computer was 15 years old and worked with Windows Vista that would make even more sense. I have found that is about where the boundary was between computers that worked with Windows 10 and those that didn't.

BTW, even Windows 7 updates starting in 2019 failed unless the CPU supported SSE2. Also, about that time more and more software started issuing new versions that required SSE2 support.

- - - Updated - - -

My Windows 7 is still getting security updates and functioning well. I'm thinking I must have the extended version. The old beast of burden only has one CPU : An intel 6900K. It may not be the meanest, leanest, fastest, awesomest tool in the shed but give me 40 lanes and I'll turn this rig around and go places those sport models can't. >> Intel Core i7 6900K @ 4181.23 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

 

[MisterEd]

To show you the difference I had an HP Pavilion laptop that I bought in October 2004. It had an AMD Athlon64 3400+ single core CPU. It came with 1GB RAM and Windows XP Home. HP never provided any updates when Windows Vista came out in January 2007. I tried Windows Vista Beta on it but found it worked poorly. It seemed even at idle it used a little more that 1GB RAM. It was really slowed down by having to use the swap file.

Years later I upgraded the RAM to 2GB (max supported) and installed Windows 7 Home. That worked OK but was rather sluggish. Since the CPU supported SSE2 Windows update eventually downloaded and installed the Edge browser. Note since HP supplied no driver updates Windows 7 only provided a generic NVIDIA video driver. The display was really slow and had a resolution of 1024x768. Fortunately, the NVIDIA video driver for Windows XP worked so I had faster video and the expected resolution of 1280x800.

I tried an upgrade to Windows 10 but that failed. I then tried a clean install of Windows 10 but that was a disaster. It booted but it was shocking to see the Device Manager. Only basic hardware had drivers. There was maybe 4 red Xs next to some devices that had no drivers. The video was using a basic driver. The Windows XP this time did not work. There was red Xs next to both the wired and wireless network devices. I tried for a couple days to find drivers for the hardware that needed them. Unfortunately, I had no success doing that. I ended up restoring Windows 7 from a backup I had for it.

Last month was the end for that laptop. The video became scrambled. I hoped that it was the display so I tried an external monitor. Unfortunately, that made no difference so obviously the video chip was at fault.

I keep a Dell Latitude E6410 laptop for a non-profit. It was originally purchase in 2010. It has a Intel Core i5 450M (2.4GHz) CPU. It is 2 cores/4 threads. It has 4 GB RAM. It came with Windows 7 Pro. I also install Windows 8 Pro in dual-boot and later upgraded to Windows 8.1 Pro. When Windows 10 came out I did the free upgrade of Windows 8.1 Pro to Windows 10 Pro.

I have a desktop I originally built in 2009. It has an AMD Phenom II 960 (3.0GHz) CPU. It has It is 4 cores/4 threads. It has 8GB RAM. It originally had Windows 7 but now has Windows 10 in dual-boot.

What both this desktop and the laptop have in common is that even though they both run Windows 10 they both seem sluggish compared to what I am used to.

I have a desktop I originally built in 2013. It has an AMD AMD FX-8350 (4.0GHz) CPU. It has It is 4/8? cores. It has 8GB RAM. It originally had Windows 7 but now has Windows 10 in dual-boot. However, I did do an upgrade to it that made a big difference in its performance. In 2021 I replaced the 1TB 3.5" SATA HDD with a 1TB 2.5" SATA SSD. It now not only boots much faster but is surprisingly more responsive at the desktop.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

Moving from a mechanical drive to SSD, I find, always results in faster booting and increased responsivity. The days of ye olde klunk drive are vastly becoming a thing of the past IMO. That said I had to laugh when I learned that a mechanical drive was recently released that produces speeds nearly as fast as a standard SATA SSD. So who knows? Perhaps even spinning rust will become popular again one day (just like electric cars) and make a come back! I am reminded that neccessity is the mother of invention.

Somehow the world's fastest hard drive can now rival SSD speeds | PC Gamer

My AMD RYZEN 7 3800X (4.5 GHz) was a bit of a disappointment when I discovered I couldn't back pedal to WIN 8.1. Despite the fact that it runs stable on stock cooling on a solid 4.4 GHz OC and boasts 8 cores/16 threads, my old Intel rig could handle 7/8.1/LINUX and WIN 10 without issue and clocks just fine @ 4+ despite not being a gaming rig. The AMD build uses 32 GB of RAM with a CAS of 15-15-15 on a frequency of 3666 MHz. (Gotta love that B die.) Sure, it's sportier but it's a whole lot more limited than my BOB and a lot less flexible.


As a rule I have to agree with your findings. The further away the hardware is away from the date of the OS it came with the less likely it will work with all newer operating systems. This has been my finding with Windows. That old Dimension became a Linux give away that worked well at the time I passed it off to a senior who just wanted to have something to check their emails with and do some casual browsing. The other Inspiron I gave to a little girl who is very pleased with it and her Dad likes it too. (Although I heard her father confiscated it and gave it to the older sister -- not my business.) Windows 10 installed on both INSPIRON 530 units like a dream. They both originally came with VISTA installed. Finding drivers for the hardware wasn't hard at all. (Zero yellow triangles in device manager.) They both updated better than some of my newer units.

I find with NVIDIA drivers for the GFX card are best obtained directly from NVIDIA asap. The same might be said for AMD but it has been my experience that AMD is somewhat more forgiving in this regard. I have a friend who calls HP hardware "horrible parts" and insists that's what the HP stands for. lol I don't know about that, but one thing HP has always impressed me with is that they use a very solid frame in their PCs. Those old HP units are built like tanks. I've worked on dozens and dozens of them. In fact, I have a case from that 2004 era that I managed to save from a dumpster and I mean to make a project of it. I plan to post a YouTube video explaining and illustrating why these old computer cases shouldn't be tossed, but just like vintage automobiles they can be "hot rodded" too! ::grins:::

 

[MisterEd]

2.5-inch SATA SSDs were developed as direct replacements for mechanical hard drives. Their speeds are limited to the speeds of the SATA interface itself. That is why most 2.5-inch SATA SSDs have about the same 500 MBps read/write speeds.

On the other hand M.2 NVME SSDs use four lanes on the PCIe interface. These SSDs on PCIe 3.0x4 could achieve about 2000-3000 MBps read/write speeds. SSD drives designed for PCIe 4.0x4 could be up to twice those speeds.

In any event SSDs of any type are much faster and quieter than any hard drive the average person could afford.

I have several Nvidia video cards. Some of them are old enough they are not supported by the current Nvidia driver. I have made a point of finding the newest drivers supported for each card directly from Nvidia. I have those archived for when I need them. For example,

GeForce GTX 560
--------------------------------------------
391.35 - Windows 10 64-bit
391.35 - Windows 10 32-bit
391.35 - Windows 7, 8.1, 8 64-bit
391.35 - Windows 7, 8.1, 8 32-bit
365.19 - Windows 7, 8.1, 8, Vista 64-bit
365.19 - Windows 7, 8.1, 8, Vista 32-bit
368.81 - Windows XP

Both AMD and NVIDIA recommend laptop owners only use the drivers from the manufacturer of the laptop. It is safest to take this route but then you have to settle for drivers that receive very few updates.

One thing I learned the hard way was that really old computer case had 80mm fans. Newer cases have 120mm, 140mm and larger fans. I had a CPU fail because the 80mm fans in the case were not powerful enough to cool it.

The same goes for power supplies. Really old ones no matter how capable are not suitable for new computers.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

Going to try out Win 10 in RAID 0

PULLED the trigger on two of these >> WD Black SN770 SSD Review: A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing (Updated) | Tom's Hardware

I'm curious to see how well they'll work in my personal AMD build.

 

[townsbg]

Just to note the mentioned hard drive is SAS and there fore won't work in most desktops. It's designed for servers.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

Sata/sas - break out the budget

Just to note the mentioned hard drive is SAS and there fore won't work in most desktops. It's designed for servers.

Hmmm.. Not so sure about that. Article here says: "According to Seagate's official specifications, the SATA drives can sustain a maximum transfer rate of 545 MBps. The SAS drives can go up to 554 MBps in sequential reading/writing IO operations."

Seagate claims Mach.2-enabled Exos 2X18 is the world's fastest hard disk | TechSpot

So you've got your choice between SAS or SATA. It's those double actuators that I find dubious. Moving parts only last so long. I also noticed the limited warranty. Not really impressed. Still, I don't think they'll be taking it to the domestic end user level any time soon — if at all. I can hardly see why they would. Even for a home server methinks SSDs would be more practical IMO.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

The prob with those 80mm fans is that they're power hungry and very noisy. Enough to make my basement sound like a server room. But they are very efficient at keeping things cool. I have a large box full of the annoying things. Indubitably, liquid cooling might provide an effective alternative but personally, I've never been a big fan of liquid cooling and likely never will be despite what the fan bois have to say about it.

As for NVMe, I was once a big fan of the stuff but now I have reservations as a recent experience with NVMe just cost me 20 hard drives worth of data to run forensics on. I had to run a Windows System Image recovery (for Win 8.1) and it would not recover because a critical file, namely, IaNVMe.sys, was missing. After running Intel's fix for this particular QLC/Optane issue, my attempt at restoring two partitions resulted in 20 drives all written over with new partitions. Simply put, my backup took out all my other backups and nearly all my drives on my work station. Interestingly, this catastrophic system failure failed to take out my Win 7 U. So now what is left of my data hangs on being restored with an EOL OS. . . The last real operating system made by Microsoft.

 

[Uitlander]

I'm sorry guys , but I have to ask: What is an Operating System? I always thought an "OPERATING SYSTEM" was to run the hardware on the computer. I'm sorry but I really don't like anything released after Win 7 because they seem to think the "OS" is a catchall to install "M$" crap software (and other crap s**t that's "UNWANTED" basically referring to "METRO" crap). Win 7 had a lot of s**t that needed to be deleted (like "AERO"), that, being as I am "OLD and almost blind" just looked F***ed up to me) but hey even Win 8 had even 10 times more "S**T". I have used Win 8.1 and 10 and 11 in VMs and all I can see is that they're actually, (a piece of S**T). "WAY TOO MUCH ADDED CRAP". I really don't think an "OS" should be a catchall for "EVERYTHING" (when is M$ going to add the kitchen sink?). I am all for "SUPPORTING EVERYTHING". Hey, I'm 81 YO and since maybe (if I'm lucky) I can get another 3 years of updates for Win 7 (yet to be seen) maybe I wont "DIE" before that's over. I don't know Guys and Gals, but I really need to know that there is at least one person out there that feels that an "OPERATING SYSTEM" should "NOT" be a catchall for every piece of crap software they can include with it. Sorry but I always thought software was developed to "ENHANCE" an operating system and not to be included in it. Sorry folks, I know this is nothing but a "RANT" but, hey I will be more than happy to see any replies to this.

Each rendition of Windows has ever more corporate malware/spyware/crapware packed into it than the preceding one. It's a longstanding tradition with M$, as is releasing (or should I say unleashing?) half-baked OSes with more security holes than a colander. That will never change, nor will the fanboys ever tire of playing apologist or cheerleader. Things are as they are.

I recently switched from XP Pro to Win 7, not exactly willingly, but it's a done deal now. I can foresee the same tactics used to force me to give up XP, now being brought to bear on Win 7, so I have fast-tracked my study of MX Linux. If Win 7 is sabotaged, I'll be ready to move on to Linux.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

My View

Each rendition of Windows has ever more corporate malware/spyware/crapware packed into it than the preceding one. It's a longstanding tradition with M$, as is releasing (or should I say unleashing?) half-baked OSes with more security holes than a colander. That will never change, nor will the fanboys ever tire of playing apologist or cheerleader. Things are as they are.

I recently switched from XP Pro to Win 7, not exactly willingly, but it's a done deal now. I can foresee the same tactics used to force me to give up XP, now being brought to bear on Win 7, so I have fast-tracked my study of MX Linux. If Win 7 is sabotaged, I'll be ready to move on to Linux.

I completely concur. Be that as it may the mainstream loves their advertising, their social networking, their online gaming, their GOOGLE and YouTube, Ticky-Tack etc. etc. They want fast and easy, instant gratification, and they want to be entertained. In a word, they want fun. They don't want to mess about in Terminal to understand how to make a program work. This is the Television of the future. Fear ware, malware, bloatware, adware, and every kind of scare ware are out there pledging allegiance to the almighty digital dollar and there is not a thing we can do about it. This is the new job creation program where everyone is on the make and everyone is on the take. And now we can all sit back in our chairs and brace ourselves because GPT Chat is here to stay.

I just managed to get Windows 11 installed on my Work Station yesterday and what a bunch of nonsense to get it to work on a system board that only sports TPM 1.2. I'm never gonna do that again. So if my PC is over three years old Microsoft treats it like an archaic piece of junk. I'm very reluctant to put Linux back on this machine now because of all the UEFI/TPM "security" protocols compliments of Microsnot. Seems to me that with each and every new Windoze OS the thumbscrews are tightened that much more in the name of the micro-monopoly that aims to own your own hardware. *This is my opinion, of course* LORD help me if I'm no longer even permitted to have an opinion.

This is a classic; an old charade, a cliche, that has been played consistently over the centuries and I'm surprised at how many today are still eating it for breakfast, lunch, and supper: SECURITY. Security vs liberty. Security vs privacy. Security vs property. Security vs sovereignty. Security vs autonomy. When does it end? Oh, the atrocities committed in the name of "security"! Yup. Microsoft is doing this for my own good. They know Linux is "bad" for me because it might just cause me to think for myself. So let's get rid of that dual boot business once and for all. Right? Not unlike APPLE they're gonna decide what I want, how much I want, when I want, and how I want it. They're gonna do my thinking for me and all that I'm required to do is sit back and take it and keep paying them while they take me for a ride.

I forgot where I hung my tin foil hat but it behooves me to say that Alex Jones was right about this much:

There's a war going on for our minds. This is beyond INFO WARS. They don't just want to own the information. They want to own the hardware as well, the mechanical and the biological. They want it all. I'm old and I'm tired of it. Thank you for letting me have my rant. Have fun out there, comrades!

 

[Uitlander]

I completely concur. Be that as it may the mainstream loves their advertising, their social networking, their online gaming, their GOOGLE and YouTube, Ticky-Tack etc. etc. They want fast and easy, instant gratification, and they want to be entertained. In a word, they want fun. They don't want to mess about in Terminal to understand how to make a program work. This is the Television of the future. Fear ware, malware, bloatware, adware, and every kind of scare ware are out there pledging allegiance to the almighty digital dollar and there is not a thing we can do about it. This is the new job creation program where everyone is on the make and everyone is on the take. And now we can all sit back in our chairs and brace ourselves because GPT Chat is here to stay.

I just managed to get Windows 11 installed on my Work Station yesterday and what a bunch of nonsense to get it to work on a system board that only sports TPM 1.2. I'm never gonna do that again. So if my PC is over three years old Microsoft treats it like an archaic piece of junk. I'm very reluctant to put Linux back on this machine now because of all the UEFI/TPM "security" protocols compliments of Microsnot. Seems to me that with each and every new Windoze OS the thumbscrews are tightened that much more in the name of the micro-monopoly that aims to own your own hardware. *This is my opinion, of course* LORD help me if I'm no longer even permitted to have an opinion.

This is a classic; an old charade, a cliche, that has been played consistently over the centuries and I'm surprised at how many today are still eating it for breakfast, lunch, and supper: SECURITY. Security vs liberty. Security vs privacy. Security vs property. Security vs sovereignty. Security vs autonomy. When does it end? Oh, the atrocities committed in the name of "security"! Yup. Microsoft is doing this for my own good. They know Linux is "bad" for me because it might just cause me to think for myself. So let's get rid of that dual boot business once and for all. Right? Not unlike APPLE they're gonna decide what I want, how much I want, when I want, and how I want it. They're gonna do my thinking for me and all that I'm required to do is sit back and take it and keep paying them while they take me for a ride.

I forgot where I hung my tin foil hat but it behooves me to say that Alex Jones was right about this much:

There's a war going on for our minds. This is beyond INFO WARS. They don't just want to own the information. They want to own the hardware as well, the mechanical and the biological. They want it all. I'm old and I'm tired of it. Thank you for letting me have my rant. Have fun out there, comrades!

I decided not to fool with multi-boot stuff, and circumvented it by having two HDDs....the internal one with Win 7...and a SSD for MX Linux, via a mobile-rack installed in the spare 5.25 bay. The mobile rack (Syba SY-MRA55006) also has space for another HDD, which I hope to one day to use for cloning Win 7 as a 'Plan B' for System Restore. I have boot order set for DVD>mobile rack>internal HDD.

Yeah, 'security' is always the selling point...worked for clearing away the protest against DRM/HDCP, gussying up the tarnished rep of TCG and their Trusted Computing crap, keeps the updates-addicts busy, and works equally well for sleazy politicians.

 

[SCANNERMAN777]

I decided not to fool with multi-boot stuff, and circumvented it by having two HDDs....the internal one with Win 7...and a SSD for MX Linux, via a mobile-rack installed in the spare 5.25 bay. The mobile rack (Syba SY-MRA55006) also has space for another HDD, which I hope to one day to use for cloning Win 7 as a 'Plan B' for System Restore. I have boot order set for DVD>mobile rack>internal HDD.

Yeah, 'security' is always the selling point...worked for clearing away the protest against DRM/HDCP, gussying up the tarnished rep of TCG and their Trusted Computing crap, keeps the updates-addicts busy, and works equally well for sleazy politicians.

I still multi-boot but I admit it's a pain constantly repairing it. Bottom line in all this "security" nonsense is liability.
It's all a finger pointing game where Corporations play legalities to cover their assets while the end user continues to sign off on rights and freedoms. Same as it ever was: The little guy is left holding the bag.