Song .." Born An American "

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I have no idea what all this actually means
   Note
This isn't intended to be offensive, diminish/negate current troops etc, nor intended to be anything close to a political debate. If taken as offensive - apologies in advance


It's merely a question based upon observations from afar.


Geopolitical/cultural gap and reason's for occupation aside, what is the fundamental difference between a Vietnam Vet and an Iraq/Afghan vet?


Both wars sent brave young people to foreign lands to face horrors civilians will never understand. Both have a high attrition rate - be it mental, physical or life itself.


Yet the former were treated with utter contempt, the latter are lauded as heroes. Yet, essentially the are doing the same job - which is protecting US interests.


Again no offence intended for the 'elephant in the room' question because I am truly curious - but is the 'over the top' support for current serving troops a way to compensate for former attitudes and behaviour and as such, perhaps one aspect intended to avoid making the same mistake twice?

Or is it simply because a 'troop friendly' media and populous attitude makes up for the shortfall that conscription once filled?
 

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I like the song and artist.

My brother was seriously injured in Nam.. took 7 major surgeries to put him back together again.. We are very blessed to have him well and working full time now.
I'm greatful for each man and woman who is away serving so that I can live freely in the USA..
Freedom isn't free..it comes with a huge price tag.. some their very lives.
Thanks to all who serve... God Bless the USA!!!
 

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I have no idea what all this actually means
My brother was seriously injured in Nam.. took 7 major surgeries to put him back together again.. We are very blessed to have him well and working full time now.

It's good to hear he made it through. However that would make you exempt from the original question since you'd be personally 'biased' :)

I'm greatful for each man and woman who is away serving so that I can live freely in the USA..

Just one small point of conjecture - the USA isn't the only country affected by this current 'situation'.

As for freedom... well...

Freedom isn't free..it comes with a huge price tag.. some their very lives.

Nothing is free, nor ever will be. And unfortunately that particular price has been paid since our species learnt to walk upright. It's also a price that will continue to be paid by our species as long as we exist :(

God Bless the USA!!![/B]

I'm not touching that... :p

Sorry, no - I have to :o :

If that is 'Gods' 'blessing' - I'd hate to see his curse...

And 'God' is not beholden to any individual country - He either 'blesses us all' or 'bless no-one' , regardless of his varying bestowed titles :zip:
 

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My brother was seriously injured in Nam.. took 7 major surgeries to put him back together again.. We are very blessed to have him well and working full time now.

It's good to hear he made it through. However that would make you exempt from the original question since you'd be personally 'biased' :)

I'm greatful for each man and woman who is away serving so that I can live freely in the USA..
Just one small point of conjecture - the USA isn't the only country affected by this current 'situation'.

As for freedom... well...

Freedom isn't free..it comes with a huge price tag.. some their very lives.
Nothing is free, nor ever will be. And unfortunately that particular price has been paid since our species learnt to walk upright. It's also a price that will continue to be paid by our species as long as we exist :(

God Bless the USA!!![/B]
I'm not touching that... :p

Sorry, no - I have to :o :

If that is 'Gods' 'blessing' - I'd hate to see his curse...

And 'God' is not beholden to any individual country - He either 'blesses us all' or 'bless no-one' , regardless of his varying bestowed titles :zip:

I would like to voice my support for all the points that you have raised & commented on above.

Differences of opinions are healthy in a democratic society as is respect for others views.


Jan.
 

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lol

sigh...


We're not as ignorant and self centered as we sound...
 

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A great discussion is healthy.. NOPE I'm not biased...I just loved the thoughts in the message I posted.. thinking it was fitting since July 4th isn't far away.My family have been in quite a few wars.. all in the name of freedom... not always the USA .. quite often to help the underdog.. gain freedom..
not the democratic kind we enjoy... but their kind of a democratic society that fits.. their needs.

You didn't offend me in the least.. :)
YES .. the God I know.... has been most gracious to the USA.
 

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I have no idea what all this actually means
A great discussion is healthy.. NOPE I'm not biased...I just loved the thoughts in the message I posted.. thinking it was fitting since July 4th isn't far away.My family have been in quite a few wars.. all in the name of freedom... not always the USA .. quite often to help the underdog.. gain freedom..
not the democratic kind we enjoy... but their kind of a democratic society that fits.. their needs.

You didn't offend me in the least.. :)
YES .. the God I know.... has been most gracious to the USA.

I saved this one for you my LPT!
image001.gif
Every little boy needs a puppy!
lptdog.jpg
 

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Geopolitical/cultural gap and reason's for occupation aside, what is the fundamental difference between a Vietnam Vet and an Iraq/Afghan vet?
Let me extend that before I answer it. Let's include Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Granada, Panama, Falkland Islands, Korea, Atlantic theater, Pacific theater in WWII and WWI vets. What is the fundamental difference? Absolutely nothing. Each vet in any of those conflicts gave the government a blank check, payable in any amount to include his or her life. This includes Brits, Aussies, New Zealanders, Poles, French, Finns, and many, many others. They followed orders and went to war because civilian politicians failed. The vets did not start the conflicts; but they were expected to clean up the messes.

All gave some and some gave all. And collectively they gave me the opportunities and the freedom that I enjoy today.

There is no fundamental difference in vets anywhere.

All gave some and some gave all.
 

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Carl... here... here.. you have expressed my feelings perfectly .View attachment 82427
I couldn't have said it any better.. thank you!!!!:thumbsup:
 
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I have no idea what all this actually means
A great discussion is healthy.. NOPE I'm not biased...I just loved the thoughts in the message I posted.. thinking it was fitting since July 4th isn't far away.My family have been in quite a few wars.. all in the name of freedom... not always the USA .. quite often to help the underdog.. gain freedom..
not the democratic kind we enjoy... but their kind of a democratic society that fits.. their needs.

You didn't offend me in the least.. :)
YES .. the God I know.... has been most gracious to the USA.

I saved this one for you my LPT!
View attachment 82412
Every little boy needs a puppy!
View attachment 82413
THWolves .. oh wonderful.... I have saved both..
Thanks bunches!!!:)
 

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I have no idea what all this actually means
Thank you, LPt; and thank you for posting the link to the song. I enjoyed it.
 

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Geopolitical/cultural gap and reason's for occupation aside, what is the fundamental difference between a Vietnam Vet and an Iraq/Afghan vet?

Both wars sent brave young people to foreign lands to face horrors civilians will never understand. Both have a high attrition rate - be it mental, physical or life itself.

Yet the former were treated with utter contempt, the latter are lauded as heroes. Yet, essentially the are doing the same job - which is protecting US interests.

Again no offence intended for the 'elephant in the room' question because I am truly curious - but is the 'over the top' support for current serving troops a way to compensate for former attitudes and behaviour and as such, perhaps one aspect intended to avoid making the same mistake twice?

Or is it simply because a 'troop friendly' media and populous attitude makes up for the shortfall that conscription once filled?

Smarteyeball, it is definitely not a "troop friendly" media. The media has much the same attitude as they did during the Viet Nam War. They started out on the same tact in the current WOT as they did in Viet Nam showing protest, majoring on the faults and mistakes and talking almost nothing of the heroes. That really hasn't changed. You hear nothing of Medal of Honors recipients in the media. You get plenty of coverage of collateral damage.

While I would definitely not call the support for the troops "over the top", it is definitely stronger and more well publicized than during the Viet Nam era. I think you have hit on part of the reason - "support for current serving troops a way to compensate for former attitudes and behaviour and as such, perhaps one aspect intended to avoid making the same mistake twice?"

Two things a very different this time around.

1. Much better communications and access to all points of view via the internet. In Viet Nam, in this country, you were stuck with the very slanted views and agenda of ABC, NBC, and CBS. That was it. That was all you saw or heard. We did not have access to the BBC; there was no Fox. Now one can see video's shot by the soldiers themselves, read their letters, listen to interviews that the mainstream media "overlooks".

2. The US reserves are being used extensively in the WOT. They were not used much at all in Viet Nam, especially in the ground war. That means that virtually every village, city and town in the US has been directly touched. Reserve units are hometown units. Everyone knows someone who has been to or is in the sandbox. Taht tends to broaden and heighten support for the troops.

3. Viet Nam era vets have banded together in formal and informal organizations to make sure our current heroes are honored as we from that era weren't. A large number of us became activists and counter-protesters. By and large, we have drowned out the voices of the protesters - and our numbers are usually much larger - even when the anti-military protest organizations are paying college students to protest.

The media still does not cover this. They give extensive coverage of the protesters and a passing mention of the counter protesters. The media only gives numbers on those rare occasions that the protesters outnumber the counter protesters. This I know from personal experience.

But the public backs and supports us vets because of #1 and #2 above.

I hope this gives you some insight. :)
 

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Carl thank you ..for your message above...:thumbsup:

This is Gene Simmons .. at a military base .. enjoy !!!!.. you get to see a bunch of very happy military men and women getting a little time of to have some fun !!!... after taking care of their daily job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MtdIO23MKM
 

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Thank you for the link, LPt. That vid brought back a lot of memories. :D
 

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Thanks LPt for this great link
Put a chill up my spine as I remember those days and will never forget them.
image004.gif
click on flag

May this start our 4th of July Posts.
 

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If you go back for the last 2000 years and analyse the reasons for wars you will find that patriotism and religion were the main reasons for starting wars - greed was another one. Today that translates into " protecting national interest = oil ".
In light of that, one should wonder whether that was worth all those lost lives.
 

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I made a new sig only for 4th of July.;)
 

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If you go back for the last 2000 years and analyse the reasons for wars you will find that patriotism and religion were the main reasons for starting wars - greed was another one. Today that translates into " protecting national interest = oil ".
In light of that, one should wonder whether that was worth all those lost lives.
I believe it was Toynbee who said all wars are fought for either power, territory or economy or a combination thereof. Religious wars fall right in with power and sometimes economy. Patriotism is exploited by those in power to generate support for war.
 

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NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS
Sound Card
SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio (Chip)
Monitor(s) Displays
ViewSonic VX 1962 wm
Screen Resolution
1680 X 1050
Hard Drives
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 80 GB
ST380215A ATA Device 18.6 GB
Western Digital "My Book" external hard drive 750 GB
Cooling
Fan based
Keyboard
Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000 v10 USB
Mouse
Logitec optic USB
Internet Speed
3.01 Mb/s download 0.64 Mb/s upload
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