Discussion: Should I keep Win 7 or upgrade to Win 10? Pro Con AdvDis

[XP VM User]

Hi everyone!

I post link to saved earlier closed thread: Upgrade to Windows 10 - OP banned spammer Solved - Page 2 - Windows 7 Help Forums so everyone can find the link in all my writing when they need to check out original thread.

I know and realize that I do write a lot, so please be patient with me.
I will help you by using bold type in case anyone wants to skim down and just read some of the most important points and questions I have here to ask!

[I know I write long.
To make it easier for my readers, I prefaced any "real" questions that I'm asking for an answer with a clear "QUESTION" in all BOLD caps. I hope this helps make my long post more manageable.]

This thread is based upon a prior thread that has been closed to new posts but is still here at:

"Upgrade Windows 10--OP Banned Spammer"

Upgrade to Windows 10 - OP banned spammer Solved - Page 2 - Windows 7 Help Forums

Thanks in advance for all of you writing so many excellent points based upon your great knowledge in one thread for me to comment on!

Please do NOT take any of my comments as argumentative or upset in any way! I need to have this conversation with someone other than the salesman at the local computer store (who is only too willing to sell me anything "new"), and that effects his answers to my questions and complaints!

Barman wrote some [new] material at the start of that thread [Linked twice above] which is germane as to why I posted here:

Upgrade to Windows 10 - OP banned spammer
This thread was originally posted by a banned member and all of their posts were deleted

To assist our user XP VM User I have reinstated the thread in read only mode to allow quoting of content

[Thank you again Barman!]

[Original text of this post ]
You would be better off joining at Ten Forums as the users there have more experience of running the OS (It's a sister site to this one)

The reasons why I did not move this conversation to Ten Forums are two fold... (I still can post the same ideas and thoughts from all of you there can't I? It is your sister site?
If everyone here recommends I can try to ask them these same questions to see what they respond with!

1. I know and trust the excellent members here that have been helping me since 2012 and who already "know" [I hope] and bear with my lengthy writing style, while those who frequent more frequently the Ten Forum may not know and accept those things and might not be willing to read everything and respond fearing that I'd write even more lengthy responses.

2. Its because I'm on a "cusp" here...
Do I take the leap to Windows 10?
Or do I stay with the one I know Windows 7 at least two more years [I'll be back you know it! in April 2020 asking everyone what do I do at that point when we all lose Microsoft Support for Windows 7 products.

I think that the others here who continue to USE and MAINTAIN their favorite Windows OS as 7, not upgrading to 10, would be my staunchest supporters and/or critics pointing out the pros and cons of my switching....

3. And a third one, if this post survives my time here... maybe it gives lots of information in one thread for someone else who is considering the same problem of the looming Microsoft Deadline and whether it is worth the effort to migrate all their files etc to Windows 10 or just to stay with a "re-installed" "correctly operating" version of Windows 7.

* * *

For that last one especially I also direct everyone's attention to the other long thread I've been participating in trying to solve my Laptop's current HDD problems.
This is the "Excessive Read Write Overloading HDD"

Excessive Read Write overloading HDD - Windows 7 Help Forums

For those who do not know this thread, and to save everyone time, its all about how my Laptop's HDD Drive light stays on and on for hours and hours in the steady position with no detected viruses or malware or new programs (save one from Apple) that were added to the 300 or so Programs I already got here and were working a month or so ago perfectly where I could leave the computer on for 24/7 and except when it was being actively scanned by Norton AV or Malwarebytes....there was little or NONE activity for the Read/Write HDD light! So something is definitely "off" with the laptop hence my need to get a new larger, internal HDD for my existing laptop, but,
QUESTION:::: What Windows OS do I put on it?
And...[See my History story below] I have a very large new iPad storage capacity to backup on old HDD its not going to fit!



Before we start with answering these posts in the new thread I created here::

Discussion: Should I keep Win 7 or upgrade to Win 10? Pro Con AdvDis - Windows 7 Help Forums

Disadvantages, first, let me relate a bit of my own history here on this site....(which you did not say but I am certain you all know about this)

I have Windows 7 Professional (x64) version.

I have a lot of programs with "product keys" and "proprietary " data files, so that these third party companies want to prevent me from "sharing" them with anyone else unless they have the same purchased program.
I can print them! But as I found out, the proprietary program is very aggressive and sometimes when I got a new printer it would not "work" at all until I notified the company and they made a patch to allow printing via that new device.... All I can do is shrug and say: "who knew?" when I originally purchased these programs on the inexpensive side.

When Windows 10 was introduced "for free" as many of you have noted. It came with this offer:
[paraphrasing] If you try out Windows 10 and you don't like it, you can always go back to your old Windows (i.e.7) in 30 days.
They stored the "old" program in an "old" file created when you install the new Windows 10.

I never took up the challenge as how possibly can I look at my paid c. 300 programs (almost no free ware or share ware....all involved some "cost" to me to get) and see if any of them are going to misbehave or crash or have another problem working under Windows 10.
Including, but not limited to, the program not working calling for me in daily/hourly baloons/windows notifications asking me to urgently find and paste in the long "product key" to keep using it under Windows 10 as I'm the same owner.

I never found a satisfactory way to store and maintain all those product keys.
Too many Emails to search for their letters to me with the Product Key.
Many boxes have the product key kept inside the box for "safekeeping" with any printed out warranty or instructions, etc.

I have No idea or concept how anyone could possibly check out so many programs in their old Windows 7 OS to see and identify and be certain which ones are going to "fail" if they get the Windows 10 upgrade in just 30 days (I do have to eat and sleep too, maybe?) [I joke, I won't eat and sleep if I have to!]

.....and to call all the various companies to see if they will help me for "free" or if its been too many years since I purchased the program license
(and to save money, of could I stupidly (not knowing there would be a Windows 10 coming out), purchased the "one time loading, one user, one product code install" cheapest version possible, not the "lifetime" version on as many computers as you own no matter what version that these third parties always are selling you to spend more on "day one" for a future moment like this one after you've spent time and years doing files that can't be opened by any other program! (or Windows Explorer, etc).

( I Just got a new program again (sigh)... Difference in prices is terrible! $35 for the "one time only no store on Email, 30 days to install and ask questions then goodbye---I raised it up to $59 for 2 years of phone support ---- As much as I love you guys being here for me at Windows Seven Forum.... I prefer to do the phone as I am a terrible writer and talk very fast on phone so we get a lot one....so I do take phone support when offered.

If I took the "more than one computer" and "lifetime options" it raised this simple $35 program up to $95, then $125..... I can't afford that--for one program that I may or may not use more than once or twice a year (= 10=-20 files in 10 years, see it does add up!!) $35, and squeezing me out for $59 which became $63 with some added fees of course..... That is what I did...

Now multiply that same thinking and stupid process that it seems I'm the only computer program purchases who is concerned by this....just multiply that stupidity by 300 programs... and you see what a fix I'm in trying to figure out if I can go into Windows 10 "for free" back then, or even paid upgrade today....
without suffering unknown economic losses--or the loss of gaining access to all those files and who knows how many I'll need in future, when I can't even have the time to check out the program's functionality vis a vis Windows 10


[Yes yes I do know about the compatibility option under Windows....but unfortunately MANY of these programs were already working in my Windows 7 Professional ver. under the "compatibility" option from my older still XP operating system and that I'm certain Windows/Microsoft will not let me keep running the older paid for programs in Windows 10 from Windows XP---whew that was a lot to say so I bolded it to make it clear to everyone....sorry].


And I see the storm clouds approaching!
I see everything I did since my other Windows system XP got too old to work anymore....
I see the "EOL" deadline

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=windows%207

and this one too!

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet


...........of January 1, 2020 set by Microsoft where there are no more patches against Virus attacks so the whole Windows 7 would operate offline to prevent any new virus from destroying whatever I did for past 8 or by then 10 years....

* * *

Before I start discussing, examining, and "picking apart" (no nicer way to say that) some of your posts in that original saved thread... Let me be the first to acknowledge that I'm VERY attracted to doing an upgrade to Windows 10.

Major benefits (some of you know this so you can skip this list, just know that I realize it too)
Windows 7 has an April 2020 deadline for loss of Microsoft Support. I don't even know how much further into the future Windows 10 (depending upon the version?) will last me until it too loses support.

I EITHER need a new HDD only or I may be told I Need a whole new Laptop.

[I think I need to determine this before I insert the HDD myself, following the instructions I recevied from the members here in another thread. I think I may physically take the laptop to someone here just to inspect the computer itself as I'm concerned since I lost Bluetooth, so maybe other motherboard chips are going "bad" and SIM card can be tested if I take it somewhere and they insert a borrowed card and see if the SIM card is bad or is the "system" of chips on the Motherboard bad...
Then I'll still need a new HDD as the ones they ship in the Laptops are usually the slower 5200 RPM and I'd prefer to get a 7200 or a "Raptor" 10,000 (Yes I have to read the latest manuals....when I was deciding back in 2010 I did NOT get a 10K HDD as the reports from PC magazines, etc convinced me that the thinness of the drive platters and the speed led to more failures of HDD's rather than less, so the technology was not up to being made that thin for use in a Laptop. The larger 5 1/4 format size for Towers worked perfectly and I have a bunch of those still working proving that they are a major benefit of time saving and longevity. Its just the ones they had in 2010 were not good enough for a laptop's thinner form factor (I think its called).
And with Windows 10, there are not only the old programs that "may or may not work" I might find new programs that work even better ----but unfortunately its dependent upon which way I go. If I spend $$ on new computer with replaced HDD's already, there is like zero left for the new Windows 10 programs.....
If I go for the Windows 10 upgrade into a bigger HDD only, I have lots left over for spending upon new versions of my programs and spending to get programs that were purchased "for one user,one computer" upgraded to "two" or more computers so I can re-launch them inside the new HDD (which it reads as a new computer.

A negative to this is I won't have a touch screen if I stay with my old computer.

Oh and I know I have to spring for this expense no matter what.
I wore the keycaps off of the keys "A S C, E, L, O Both Shift Keys and F11 buttons" from overuse so it really needs a new keyboard as long as I'm going "into" the computer---might have that guy just do that one as even with all of the excellent instructions posted by ____________ in his link how to do it.... I just will leave a keyboard replacement to the experts to handle and have to pay for that..
Still less than buying a whole new Laptop----and having to decide about the "warranty" extra expenses and how long in years I want phone support 24/7, etc..... which costs must be added into the cost of a new laptop.
[Plus I might lose the media center abilities unless I pay for extra to get the higher end model of laptop]
[Just a thought... why not dump it all..and just go for W7 or W10 in a Mini Tower? I do not CARRY that laptop anywhere! Its for home use....just to have a working Windows computer to provide those who demand windows product Power Points and Word documents what they want and not what Apple has as its "extensions" instead. [No there is no company or boss to pay for the computer... I ve always been outside contractor so I'm on my own with expenses and not much income as such to offset the initial costs to me so I'm always in the red with having a computer up to date!

OK the ONES who wanted to skip all that can rejoin me and we now go exploring the responses to the thread Upgrade to Windows 10 - OP banned spammer Solved - Page 2 - Windows 7 Help Forums


Ok, if you're with me on this.....

I will end this introduction to make the whole thread more manageable.

I will in the posts below,
Quote from other member's responses to that closed thread with my own comments and questions about the postings.

I'm not trying to be negative or upset to any one!

I appreciate all your views!

I just want to facilitate a discussion where I can make up my confused thoughts about whether I just do a "reininstall" of Windows 7 over the old one just to fix the OS and leave everything else as it is,
Or do I try and do the one time "upgrade" to Windows 10 and suffer what happens as that is the preferred and better way to go.

Well....here are your responses for which I thank you!

 

[XP VM User]

#1

Thank you Alejandro85 for your thoughts:

The only useful tip I can come with is, don't upgrade, reformat and clean install it.
Upgrading Windows from a version to another was always a sure way to get problems. You get all the trash of the new version together with the one from older one. Do a backup of your important information and reformat with Windows 10.
This could be one of the few times an image could come in handy as a backup, if you want to completely restore your system if something goes wrong.

That said, I doubt you can go wrong with a clean install.

----Thank you for all that advice!!!

A clean install?

QUESTION: So tell me, what happens to all my 300+ old Windows 7 programs that I have laboriously correctly installed and paid to be licensed to me on my Windows 7 Professional OS, if I do a "clean install"?

It would be just as if I took a laptop off the shelf in the store with Windows 10 already in it and just the "four" or so standard icons on the Desktop "Computer" "Libraries" "Networking" " [folder with my user name on it "

 

[XP VM User]

#2

Thank you Megaherz for your thoughts:

Welcome to the Forum.

Win 10 isn't a upgrade, it's a downgrade. But it's up to you.
- Backup all your data on an external disk.
- Download Win 10 64
- Do a clean Win 10 Pro install. Be sure to delete all partitions and then create new one. Clean Install Windows 10 Windows 10 Tutorials
- Use the Win 7 key when asked.

>>>>>>Thanks for the advice about Win 10 being a "downgrade".

So my question for those who are reading all the Microsoft news and PC magazines and other resources.... when is the real replacement for Windows 7 Professional coming out?

I know Windows 9 vanished...... Wasn't that supposed to be it??

Should I wait 4-5 years for Windows 11?? No idea what that one would be....

Why can't Microsoft make it easy as it was in the old days of Windows 95, 98, 98 Second edition... you kept upgrading the one disk you had with "upgrade" disks...

Anyone other than me remember those days?

* * *

And again for Megahertz07 see Alejandro85 words in my post #1 above.... and I replied....with this question:

QUESTION: How can I do a clean install and keep all of those programs running without buying new product keys from all the various third party companies that would love to have me buy their latest versions of their computer programs for $$?? Advice please?

 

[XP VM User]

#3

Make sure your computer is up to the task of running Windows 10 before you do the upgrade. Also, decide whether or not you want continual upgrades and updates, because that is the way it works with Windows 10.

Some people really like Windows 10, while others don't. You need to do what is right for you.

[Parenthetical Question] What happens to folks like me and Widows 7 if I try it and attempt to do the free offer of the "forced to upgrade" and I don't like it...but I have to accept it, warts and all, as in circa January 2020 I'll lose Microsoft support?


https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=windows 7

and this one too!

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

decide whether or not you want continual upgrades and updates, because that is the way it works with Windows 10.

Isn't that what I get with Windows 7 right now?
I just (see my other post: Excessive Read Write overloading HDD - Windows 7 Help Forums ) maybe have suffered through a bad download of Microsoft upgrade (1) followed quickly about a week later by 7 more!.. Really messed up computer OS as far as I could tell.

I did NOT install any other new programs during the period when it went from operating normally to not....

I just did one new program, now that my laptop is back to "more normal" operation.

I only did that one as it was "pending" as I never downloaded or installed it after buying it just before the computer went crazy on me running the HDD light solidly 24/7.
And that one program I was going to install "after" I did the Windows updates (1 followed by 7 a week later) only because I had stupidly purchased it with the 30 day guarantee download if I mess it up, not the "lifetime download" extra $$ cost (explained elsewhere in this long post).

 

[XP VM User]

#4

And good to see my helper from other questions Snick here with two posts from that original thread:

Perform a full backup of your current system. I upgraded all my computers to Win10 while it was still free, which it isn't any more, and then reinstalled Win7 on them. Use a 3rd party backup program, either Macrium Reflect free, or AOMEI Backupper free. I've demoed both, Macrium's GUI (graphical user interface) is a little more daunting for less experienced users than AOMEI, in my opinion. I use AOMEI. Both free versions will do everything you would normally need in a backup utility.

--------------------

Thanks again Snick for your further thoughts on this:

I've been using both Win7 and Win10. Win10 has a little learning curve but overall I find it acceptable, but prefer Win7 due to familiarity. If you do the backup image of Win7, install Win10, backup image of Win10, you can switch back and forth relatively easy.
FYI: if you use AOMEI Backupper to restore your image, and you have 2 or more drive in your computer, do the restore from a DVD or USB thumb drive. You can create either from within AOMEI. The reason I say this is restoring and image from within Windows, AOMEI had a difficult time discerning which drive to restore, even though you select the correct drive going through the setup screens, and it might place the system image on the incorrect drive. (it has to reboot to restore image on active partition, which is the one with Win OS on. Restoring image from DVD or Flash drive circumvents said issue. I had this happen on my own system, and had to re-image my data drive from backup I made just prior. Not sure whether Macrium has this bug or not.

Happy Computing!

Thanks for warning me about AOMEI Snick!

That is what I continually complain about all of the various backup programs.....
I buy them
I try them
I keep up a schedule of backups etc...
They do their "job" of seeming to work backing up copies or making images or whatever they do..
But you never get to actually "test" it out until there is a CRISIS and you can't go back in time and undo what you did..

You can't experiment unless you get a blank HDD Of same capacity for $$ and load it into there to test that it does work...

But of course that isn't possible on a Laptop...especially if you can't do external drive and have the program boot up the Laptop instead of the internal drive... and messing with the BIOS (at least for me) is off limits due to another problem early in the laptop's life...so I can't change order of the drives...
and all this is just more work

- - - - - - -
And Thanks for the Happy Computing wishes Snick!

 

[XP VM User]

#5

Thank you timacrium for your thoughts:

My initial password was refused by the computer after update and it took me hours to figure it out, lol

>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks for informing all of us about this problem!

This is a perfect example of what I do complain about Microsoft OSs

So I can only imagine what eccentricities I might encounter when I try doing this process, following the instructions "all by myself"
Seems I know what to do, but I'm just not 100% confident I am doing it correctly, step by step, without anyone looking over my shoulder to warn me that what I'm about to do, or press, or type in the cmd line, will cause greater harm than if I left it alone, and called for help in person or on phone/remote computer access...

(Of course, as I write this today, I have no idea if remote computer access is available for installing Windows 10 over existing Widows 7.... somewhere I'm certain there are too many "restarts" of the computer system without networking available for a remote computer or phone call to help me do that...

I'd better stay out of Windows 10 if I don't want to mess up my whole computer.....

QUESTION: What do all of you think? Am I too poor at following instructions to attempt to do this myself and have to pay for someone else to physically do this installation and upgrading to Windows 10 for me? [If so that is a good reason financially to avoid upgrading from Windows 7].

(Of course I have not decided to do Win 10 yet...but exploring both sides of the issue... in case I do since this thread is here for me to reply to!)

My great FEAR is that somewhere....while I have the computer "off" Windows 7 and not yet fully installed Windows 10, some question like "tjmacrium's" will arise and I won't be able to have the luxury of writing to Windows Seven Forum to get a reply as "what device will I use if the main computer that works with Internet of today (others say "your browser is too old to go on the Internet please update your browser or go away" (really! I can show you a screenshot! I got one for this thread in case you don't believe me!)

(but its stuck inside the "other" computer and only by burning a CD would I be able to get that large a visual file off the computer and translate it over to a windows computer from the old apple one!)

So who am I going to ask when I get a question during the Windows 10 new installation process that has a "yes or no" choice?

I can't just "leave" the computer running in that neither here or there---incomplete installation process, spot while waiting for an answer to come when I don't' know what choice to make and making wrong choice makes me do it all over again???

Stupid question.... of Course I guess I need someone here in person, looking over my shoulder or on the phone from one of the services.. for $$ but that is the expense and cost of doing this and I accept it...

That is my problem, not all of yours.

This is where the members of Windows Seven Forum can help me...
Is making that first decision which way to go....
and knowing that I made the right choice no matter how difficult it becomes later while I'm actually doing it and have hundreds of questions!!

sigh.....

 

[XP VM User]

#6

Thanks metalbunny for your thoughts:

ONLY if your Win7 was approved for a free "upgrade".

If your hardware is new enough, then W10 will run okay, but it's designed primarily for mobile devices, touchscreens, and people who know nothing about computers (just like 8 was) which makes it very hostile to power users who don't agree with how Microsoft want things done. The list of issues that come from how W10 is made is massive, but that's not for this forum.

My experience with W10 is limited to my laptop which is made for 10, there are only drivers for 10, and it has the BIOS backdoor only 10 uses. But even then it causes me grief because Windows keeps breaking drivers and keeps reinstalling MS crap that I have to remove over and over.

>>>>THANKS so very much for this information metalbunny!

Wait a minute....

What "BIOS Backdoor?" Seems I only see "backdoors" being used if you get in "trouble"
So upgrading from Windows 7 (free or not) might necessitate having a BIOS Backdoor ???

And again I was advised "not" to upgrade my BIOS or whoever told me that... might be only if I kept Windows 7 Professional version, and not Windows 10...
But they told me this in 2010, when Windows 10 did not exist as Windows 7 had just been introduced (no 8, 8.1 etc)

QUESTION: Can someone please explain that to me a bit more
QUESTION: Should I worry?
QUESTION: Should I abandon all hope of ever getting Windows 10 in same laptop that held the Windows 7 (of course I'd install a brand new HDD larger sized, as that is the only (almost) moving part that could wear out on the laptop and that would refresh and prepare the laptop for its new life as a Windows 10 device?

QUESTION: Do I just need to buy a brand new laptop? And put "nothing" in it as everything is still stuck inside the Win 7 laptop due to product codes propriety product keys etc.???? and this would be a brand new computing device?

 

[XP VM User]

#7

Thanks Barman for saving that original thread for me and sharing your thoughts about this decision/question:

The free upgrade offer officially ended in 2016, but it has seems to still work for keys that are unused. There is of course no guarantee of this working, as microsoft could actually close the offer at any time. There is slightly more likelihood of it ending today as a new upgrade is due for release.

The technical requirements for Windows 10 are similar to Windows 7 and Windows 8 so if a system runs one of these older operating system well then it should run fine.

The Home versions of Ten are designed to appeal to the home user who is happy to let the system maintain itself. The higher level editions have a lot more control

seems to still work for keys that are unused

> Keys?? What unused keys? I did get a few Emails from Microsoft on the Email I use with their company.... and they offered the "free" Windows 10... do you mean those keys would still work?

QUESTION: Or does it have to be a key when you actually "downloaded" and installed Win 10, but not activated it?

To me, outsider that I am to all of this.. confusing!

 

[XP VM User]

#8

Thanks poorguy! [It was noticing your posting on the general forum page, that drew me into this site as I really have been so confused by everyone's advice IRL, over the years (not in here of course!) about if I should upgrade to Windows 10 or not....

The only reason for upgrading to Windows 10 is for a real world hands on OS learning experience for those who are interested in becoming an IT Professional.

THANKS again for your post poorguy!

Maybe you have provided my essential takeaway thoughts from all this discussion...

But I still decided to write my thoughts about some of the other comments above...
Seeing if anyone wishes to discuss them and correct my inaccurate views of Microsoft and Windows 10

as I've been asking about it ever since the "free" period for upgrade was offered.....
Wasting a good deal of my life and time doing that.

QUESTION : Why is Windows 10 done this way? (versus other, past versions?)
So much harder than when I had to choose Windows 7 (and which version to pick)......
and if I wanted or could benefit from Windows 8, 8.1 etc... (I did not have a touch screen on the lap top, sorry.. did not think far enough ahead in 2010)... so easy choice to just avoid Windows 8's

QUESTION: Where is Windows 9? Was that supposed to be the "Professional" upgrade for Windows 7 (x64) that I was waiting for?

I know many of you ___(insert members name here)___________________ read and know all the news and announcements from Microsoft and I'm not doing myself or you any good by not doing as much reading and research on line as you all have .. so I defer to your knowledge of what and why Microsoft saw in its infinite wisdom to do it this way....

And again.. leaving poor slobs like me who don't read every single word in every single news release or kb from Microsoft, floundering in a sea of ignorance that any slightest little slip of the finger would cause immense harm to the entire computer system...

Thanks everyone for your advice to me and others!

* * *


I read all the posts here and (see near the end of this long post) [Post number #14, in the original thread, where poorguy says about Windows 10 :

The only reason for upgrading to Windows 10 is for a real world hands on OS learning experience for those who are interested in becoming an IT Professional.

Not for me I assume! I would like to know that much as IT professional, but haven't the time or expenses to gain that knowledge. I was doing some work volunteering "hands on" and gained a lot years ago, but that knowledge is far from perfect and very old school stuff compared with what you need to know today.... so Windows 10 will not be used for that reason for me....

So chalk that up again for another reason why I don't think I would use Windows 10 for what it is good for........

 

[townsbg]

QUESTION : Why is Windows 10 done this way? (versus other, past versions?)
So much harder than when I had to choose Windows 7 (and which version to pick)......
and if I wanted or could benefit from Windows 8, 8.1 etc... (I did not have a touch screen on the lap top, sorry.. did not think far enough ahead in 2010)... so easy choice to just avoid Windows 8's

Are you asking why it was free? If so that is the million dollar question and one of the reasons why I am staying away from 10 on my personal machine. I don't trust it. When 7 is out of support I plan on using 8.1 or 2012 R2 (I have legal keys for both). I don't like the full screen start menu so I installed Classic Shell on my test VMs and for me it is a suitable alternative.

As for 9, they called 10 that when it was under development but changed the name to 10 before release. They said that they did this to avoid confusion with 95 and 98. There isn't a Windows 9 anymore. I'm sorry but I didn't get to read the rest of the questions but I thought that I'd throw out my plans however if you do a clean install you will have to reinstall your programs. An in place upgrade will leave your programs but you might want to back up the license keys and installers as well as your files a head of time just in case.

 

[Barman58]

The change from Windows 9 to Windows 10 was , so I understand, a purely Sales one, There is a Minor competitor to windows which has been known for some time as Apple's MAC OS10 followed by some strange numbers and an Animal Name that means the product can be copyrighted.(short letter and any Number title for a product cannot be copyrighted - which caused a lot of grief for Intel when their 286,386,486, were having competitors name their alternatives the same and confusing customers who just bought an 486 not minding who made it, so the 586 became the Pentium)

It was decided that calling the software Windows 9 might give the wrong impression that it was older than the Apple product so Windows Ten was born

(we actually had the Windows NineForums Web address all ready to go )

As for the free initial upgrade and regularly refreshed sales model that Microsoft are now using for Windows, that makes logistical sense, the Major software income for Microsoft is from sales of office and Professional level software and it's support to business. The consumer market, due to the old Free ten year support policy (occasionally extended longer than that), costs a lot of money to service and support, with a two year release schedule you could have four or five operating systems in support at one time

The New Free upgrade to Windows Ten, (only to private customers , Business still buys a licence to upgrade to Windows 10, and their support, was an attempt to get as many home users as possible to upgrade so there is only one OS to support, (as others go out of support - in 2023 Only windows 10 will be supported ). The regular major updates means that the support lifecycle has been reduced to around 18 months to two Years - much more financially viable and the technicians only have to learn the New features to support, not a major change like the Windows 8 "experiment"

 

[XP VM User]

Thanks !

Thank you so very much! Townsbg and Nigel [Barman] For your responses full of information I as a "dunsel" do not know or keep up with the sales end of Microsoft to know these things! [One has to be selective somewhere in reading everything...so I skim sales reports and other financial pages only sticking to technical items of interest, to myself, in computers].

An in place upgrade will leave your programs but you might want to back up the license keys and installers as well as your files a head of time just in case.

Great!
Wonderful!
Perfect help!

But as I am clueless..... (just like I get warnings every so often when my Windows 7 produces the "out of memory" page for web browsing.....says the web browser is going to be shut down and "save your work".

What is "save your work"? I have it set to "restore" last session all the time and when I run out of "memory" error...

I lose all the pages and tabs I have!

So what in the world is "save your work"???? With each one of my filled browsers having 100's of tabs open on 4-5 pages for 5 to 6 different brands of browsers....and since I'm just behind in my work and not needing them "forever" I don't spend time bookmarking the individual web pages (and trying to rearrange the items on the "bookmarking" lists I made, and anyway the pages I'm trying to keep are buried so deeeeep inside the domain or web site that all I get saved is the "home" page of the web site. [If what I am describing here is a new situation or problem for the current thread topic--I don't want to violate any rules on the site here.... and I should really ask someone in one of the other help categories of Windows Seven, just direct me to where I should "re post" that last paragraph! I'm trying to stay on topic here for you since you are so nice to respond to my confusion to help me out!]

Telling me "save you work" leaves me dumfounded....

Just as (sorry to rant) .... your telling me "back up the license keys and installers as well as your files a head of time just in case. " I've had that problem with Windows XP (Unless Windows 7 does things differently ---as I never did for Windows 7 all the partitioning and moving of whole physical drives for RAID as I did for my several versions of Windows XP, I never had to encounter the problem that you are suggesting a great solution!

So you mean hidden somewhere in all the files....there is for "each third party program" an accessible,
recordable,
copyable,
non-protected,
non-copyrighted,
non-permission encrypted
file that I can just back up those licenses and installers and have them work?


[Oh by the way...... I've had plenty of negative experience already....

I had a program "die" as one of the AV programs detected it writing to the HD without my permission ----its ok the programmers said it was error and provided a "fix" patch in next update......

BUT!
When the program was removed...it took out the permission and all installers.

So I was asked to re-install it!
I got "smart" [I hope you're reading I tried to kept sentences short!]
Meaning: I got "dumb and dumber"

I went into my saved Macrium backup! Mounted the drive (back then I had room on the internal HDD to do that now I don't!)

I stole out the installer program!

Smarty me! I copied and pasted it back in the downloads folder!

Double clicked it! and VOLA! Installed the program again!

Of course it NEVER WORKED!

It did not have my original (read that ORIGINAL) Email with secret 1000000 digit code.. I'm just at the stealers, hackers. liars out there, who make legitimate paying users like me suffer like this!!!

and the company said without it they can't help me to get my license back!

I gave them approximate year I purchased it!

NOPE! won't work ....too many millions to go over! Name? Nope! they don't store it by names!

NOPE! My debit card company (no Credit card) says they don't keep records back further than 6 months! So they can't tell me 4 years ago what my purchase date was so the company can even try to locate me!

It was $200!!! for the smallest level.... "one" computer only! "one" user! and I just had to bite my wallet and re-purchase it over again and got a new code (made 20x copies of that Email but today I still can't tell you where to find it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!--sorry to break rule of exclamation points)

So what do you mean again....by: "but you might want to back up the license keys and installers as well as your files a head of time just in case. "

The "installer" will detect it is in a "new" computer installation [Whether it is Windows 7 overlay of Windows 7 or Windows 10 as both would be on a totally brand new HDD with larger space and a different manufacturer, etc etc...with different secret hidden numbers that Microsoft can access and use so these third party companies can access and use too!

If I choose to do (would like to do that like "today" so I fix all the problems of the HDD as someone earlier told me... "backing up an infected [i.e. damaged OS] is pointless"

So before I mess things up (I will buy and back up one full set anyway... maybe two copies of the broken c 490 GB of programs and data, since I'm clumsy and would surely lose a copy by accident in mounting and unmounting the backup copy if I do it wrong as I do that like ONCE or TWICE per lifetime....and I forget so many things.....

Thanks all for reading a rant...

I'm certain there are solutions (always legitimate! I'll pay, but not over and over again for the same item!) Just because I can't find an old key and just because the company only wants to sell me upgrade to a more expensive suite of program that I don't need when the old one was working perfectly....until I needed to decide "Windows 7 " or "Windows 10".....

for all your patience with me!


Also Townsbg:

When 7 is out of support I plan on using 8.1 or 2012 R2 (I have legal keys for both). I don't like the full screen start menu so I installed Classic Shell on my test VMs and for me it is a suitable alternative.

What in the world is 2012 R2 Server???

https://www.google.com/search?ei=ZG......0...1..64.psy-ab..0.1.362....0.24qrIYNC3Ko

How is that operated on a laptop? DO I need a full server device to use it? I have something , somewhere acting as a server in a "closet" but its "hands off " to me. I just watch lights blinking through the door glass. It is oooollllddddd But works for a dedicated tie line (nothing that I use the laptop on) so I do know some of this just by watching the IT people at work and asking questions... verbally and reading a bit.....

Checking its End of Life in that search above too... didn't find what I wanted....

I appreciate your suggestion Townsbg, just how does one learn enough to switch past Windows 8 "experiment" to do what you plan to do when Windows 7 dies out and you are avoiding Windows 10...

I loved that you tested it out on VM!
Hope you solved the riddle of how to do a full test without "networking" capability or "printing" capability etc etc that my Oracle Virtual Box or VM on the Windows 7 Professional version, all lack!

Oh Townsbg; thanks for letting me know it has "classic shell" on it! I run Windows Seven using Windows XP or 98 or whatever it is to get rid of the Aero stuff. I have tons of screen savers but only for the "time out" screen saver program. I like maintaining my desktop clear of distracting background photos, etc or designs.

[Edit oops! Misinterpreted the page I glanced at with "Classic Shell" TM program link!
I just use whatever customization is built into Windows, or browsers....no add ons ever! I read and agree with someone who wrote in one of my many threads here (in past 4 months I think) that many if not most problems with Windows occur with these third party customization programs and so that is why "they" the poster, do not use them. I thank you for a stable program....but my fear is that one day... it gets an unstable update and everything I worked so hard to do in Windows is ruined and I have to "restore " back a version or worse yet...do the replacement with a backup Macrium drive and figure out how it is mounted/unmounted to replace a damaged version of Windows..... So for me... even how tempting it is to play with all the things it offers me... I say thanks! but no thanks.
And thanks for reading my reason why! ]

 

[townsbg]

But as I am clueless..... (just like I get warnings every so often when my Windows 7 produces the "out of memory" page for web browsing.....says the web browser is going to be shut down and "save your work".

So what in the world is "save your work"???? With each one of my filled browsers having 100's of tabs open on 4-5 pages for 5 to 6 different brands of browsers....

That is quite possibly the cause of your issue and I'm not sure that having 8 or 10 will help. You need to decrease the number of tabs because they all consume memory. As for your upgrade question, license keys (if required) are provided by the manufacturer. As for how license keys are stored on your computer that depends upon how the manufacturer programed it. It could be in a plain text file or an encrypted file. It could also be registry either encrypted or plain text readable. The manufacturer could even control licensing and authentication on their servers and could control the activation based upon a login that they provide you. If you need to know how to reactivate you should contact the manufacturer or search google. We really can't help you with every software program out there especially specialized software. I stated that you should back them up just in case something goes wrong but in all likely hood after an upgrade you should still be able to use the software unless it is incompatible with 8 or 10. Again for this you can check with the manufacturer or do a google search. Now after a clean install you will have to reinstall everything and will need the license keys for any software that requires it. You will also need the installers.

You don't have to worry about 2012 R2. It is the server version of 8.1 and not really an option for most users nor is it needed by most users.