Home Group and Network Issues

[metalmania31]

It seems homegroup is always causing issues. Is there a reason you don't want to use workgroup? From my point of view workgroup is more straight forward and less compatibility issues.

 

[chev65]

Oh I'd say in this case there are bigger problems than just the Homegroup.

The router being used also needs to be up to the task, older routers may not cut it here.

Some of those router settings are covered in the tutorials I posted but I doubt they have been checked out. Then there is the Idstore .sst file that sometimes needs to be deleted but I doubt that has been attempted either.

Then we have A/V software of third party firewalls to consider, some of which come preinstalled on systems when you buy them and the User isn't even aware they are installed.

Blaming Homegroup for these types of problems isn't very logical if you think about it.

 

[RonNYC]

Yes, I would imagine. The Desktop is about 4 months old. Up to recently everything seemed just fine. I could print, etc. Everything. No problems. no errors. Etc. (I have SupeAntiSpyware and AVG both running; no threats). SO, then this stuff started happening seemingly from nothing. I mean,, I've been printing since I got the desktop (printers are wired into a usb hub which goes into the desktop).

So, I decided to change the workgroup, just thinking maybe something is out of sync. So I did change it on both machines. Rebooted. Both back up, new workgroup but still don't see eachother. Still can't create a network map (of course Microsoft is utterly unhelpful about that). And no homegroup.

RON

 

[chev65]

Yes, I would imagine. The Desktop is about 4 months old. Up to recently everything seemed just fine. I could print, etc. Everything. No problems. no errors. Etc. (I have SupeAntiSpyware and AVG both running; no threats). SO, then this stuff started happening seemingly from nothing. I mean,, I've been printing since I got the desktop (printers are wired into a usb hub which goes into the desktop).

So, I decided to change the workgroup, just thinking maybe something is out of sync. So I did change it on both machines. Rebooted. Both back up, new workgroup but still don't see eachother. Still can't create a network map (of course Microsoft is utterly unhelpful about that). And no homegroup.

RON

You would definitely want to turn off the real time protection on the A/V's or if they have a firewall turn it off or just uninstall them completely which is the best choice. I use Super antispyware but turn off the real time protection with no problems. Windows Security Essentials is a good choice for an A/V that doesn't cause any problems.

It's pretty obvious at this point that something is blocking the connections between those machines.

There are also details about the required router settings in those tutorials I posted so it would be wise to check those all out.

 

[RonNYC]

Let's be clear: I'm not "blaming" anything. In fact, the information MS displays regarding Home Group is rather sparse. Either it works or doesn't and if it doesn't they aren't helpful. Plug in your computer or something. Right.

I've tried turning off firewalls; nothing. BUT at one point this all worked.

I have two network connections for the computers. Both have the same name, wired and wireless. I only mention that, in that there could be some issue? No idea.

I disconnected the lan connection to the notebook and the desktop didn't appear under Network. When I plugged it back in, it appeared immediately but is not accessible.

Oh, something interesting:On the laptop, my old router also appears. That router is gone. Maybe if I could somehow remove it, from the list. But how?

 

[RonNYC]

Some additional info: Under Network (file manager) on the notebook, I get two media devices (desktop and RAID device); under Network Infrastructure: Internet Gateway Device, UbeeAP (which I think is a workgroup switch or bridge(?), and the new Router and the old router. And the RAID device under Storage.

From the DESKTOP, I see 2 computers, 2 media devices, just the router under Network Infrastructure, and the RAID device under storage.

Not sure why the two network infrastructures should be different or if that means anything.


OH, on the notebook (NOTEBOOK), now under the Network, it only shows the DESKTIOP under Computers.
RON

 

[RonNYC]

Even though I cannot access the Desktop from the notebook, I can ping it (but i get the MAC address returned).

 

[kegobeer]

That's not the MAC address. What you see is the IPv6 address being returned. If you want to see the IPv4 address, you have to add -4 to the ping, like this:

ping 192.168.0.100 -4

 

[chev65]

Some additional info: Under Network (file manager) on the notebook, I get two media devices (desktop and RAID device); under Network Infrastructure: Internet Gateway Device, UbeeAP (which I think is a workgroup switch or bridge(?), and the new Router and the old router. And the RAID device under Storage.

From the DESKTOP, I see 2 computers, 2 media devices, just the router under Network Infrastructure, and the RAID device under storage.

Not sure why the two network infrastructures should be different or if that means anything.


OH, on the notebook (NOTEBOOK), now under the Network, it only shows the DESKTIOP under Computers.
RON

Usually something with AP at the end is a wireless access point "AP".

Are you still using this second router anywhere in this network, like using it as a switch?

You should make sure there isn't a secondary router anywhere on this network and that the AP "access point" has DHCP turned off. For now I would also uninstall the A/V software's completely.

If you can post a screen shot of your ipconfig/all from both of those machines we can ensure they are both using the same default gateway.

 

[kegobeer]

Here's what I would do. First, reboot the router. Then, completely uninstall all A/V software and any malware software, and reboot. Then, verify all computers belong to the same subnet, ie: 192.168.0.xxx. Once that's done, we can be reasonably satisfied that there is now only the Windows OS we are dealing with and not any third party software apps that might be interfering with sharing.

 

[RonNYC]

I have rebooted the router; and all computers are on the subnet. 192.168.1.xxx. Each computer has TWO IP addresses (from the router, one for each connection). I've wondered if that were an issue. All this worked just fine with the A/V software running in the past.

It's odd that on the notebook, under Network Infrastructure, the old (and long gone) router appears from time to time. Then it disappears, like right before my eyes. Somehow, the media players on desktop is visible to the notebook (but not visa versa).

I've thought about resetting the router to factory settings and starting from there.

Just now while I'm looking at the Network section in file manager on the notebook, it automatically refreshes and the notebook computer is gone, then it reappears; the old router is gone and then reappears.

 

[chev65]

I think it's safe to say that your network is royally messed up but if you don't follow directions and make changes then nothing will change.

Uninstall A/V's, post ipconfig/all from both machines, not tell me about it. And unplug all things besides those two machines that might be plugged into your router.

 

[RonNYC]

The only thing plugged into the router is the RAID device.



Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : DESKTOP
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : nyc.rr.com

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : nyc.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Dell Wireless 1502 802.11b/g/n
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : CC-AF-78-42-B1-53
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::6c39:9e86:d5ff:f053%14(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.103(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, April 06, 2012 1:25:49 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:25:53 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : fe80::9ca6:9d5c:d01f:3b6a%14
192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 248295288
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-15-9F-B6-D4-F0-4D-A2-F4-FE-76
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
209.18.47.61
209.18.47.62
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : nyc.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : F0-4D-A2-F4-FE-74
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::70e4:8e88:f6e3:6398%11(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.102(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, April 06, 2012 1:25:46 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:25:45 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : fe80::9ca6:9d5c:d01f:3b6a%11
192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 250629538
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-15-9F-B6-D4-F0-4D-A2-F4-FE-76
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
209.18.47.61
209.18.47.62
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.nyc.rr.com:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : nyc.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 11:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft 6to4 Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:4137:9e76:3459:2d57:bb50:b0f7(Preferred)
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::3459:2d57:bb50:b0f7%15(Preferred)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

=========================================
LAPTOP

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : LAPTOP
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : nyc.rr.com

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection 2:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft Virtual WiFi Miniport Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 06-24-2C-4B-81-4E
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : nyc.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Atheros AR5009 802.11a/g/n WiFi Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-24-2C-4B-81-4E
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::9ca6:9d5c:d01f:3b6a%10(Preferred)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.107(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, April 06, 2012 1:09:52 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:09:57 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 234890284
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-11-79-B5-BF-00-24-2C-4B-81-4F
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
209.18.47.61
209.18.47.62
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : nyc.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek PCIe FE Family Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-1F-16-7A-FC-AB
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 8:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-D0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:4137:9e76:3439:11e7:3f57:fe94(Preferred)
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::3439:11e7:3f57:fe94%15(Preferred)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

Tunnel adapter isatap.nyc.rr.com:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : nyc.rr.com
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-D0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter 6TO4 Adapter:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft 6to4 Adapter
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-D0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

 

[kegobeer]

Can you connect the laptop to the router via ethernet cable? That would put everything on a level playing field. Plus, it will help identify any wireless specific issues.

 

[RonNYC]

Yes, it is connected directly and via the wireless connection. Both are.

 

[kegobeer]

Connect using one or the other, not both. Unless you are using teaming or bridging, pick one connection.

 

[metalmania31]

Oh I'd say in this case there are bigger problems than just the Homegroup.

The router being used also needs to be up to the task, older routers may not cut it here.

Some of those router settings are covered in the tutorials I posted but I doubt they have been checked out. Then there is the Idstore .sst file that sometimes needs to be deleted but I doubt that has been attempted either.

Then we have A/V software of third party firewalls to consider, some of which come preinstalled on systems when you buy them and the User isn't even aware they are installed.

Blaming Homegroup for these types of problems isn't very logical if you think about it.

I didn't realize he had all that other stuff connected. That certainly adds to the complication.

 

[kegobeer]

I think we will make a bit more progress now that each computer has only one active connection to the router.

 

[chev65]

Why are there two network adaptors, both wired and wireless enabled on the PC? You should disable the wireless one. The wired one should be plugged into the router.

Also you should disable the msoft wifi miniport adaptor on the laptop if you aren't using it. It will only cause problems if it's not being used for something. You may want to also try using a wired connection to the laptop for now and disable the wireless connection.

It also looks like you are trying to use the router for the DNS but you also typed the DNS into your IPv4 settings window from what I can see there?

I believe that is why we see a default gateway and two more DNS server addresses there. You should only type those DNS servers into the routers DNS settings. They do not need to be in the IPv4 settings.

You should also uninstall the A/V's for the time being because we have no way of knowing if they are causing the problem or not.

 

[RonNYC]

THANK YOU. THANK YOU ALL, REALLY. I know I was a bit of a pain, thrashing about and all. I felt like, well, as a coder (26 years) things should do pretty much the same most of the time and this was just sickening. I did disable the miniport adapter, and I disabled the wi-fi connection on both computers. I can print now!!! through the lan connection to the desktop to the printer via the usb. so THANKS!!!! especially to chev65 but to the rest of you guys. I know I was a pill.

The homegroup doesn't work yet but frankly, if I can print and since all my files are on the RAID drive which both get to, what do I care?

AGAIN THANKS!!!!

RON
(if my machines turn flakey again, I'll be back but I'm still so grateful. I can hear the printer working right now!)