Solved Installing IE6/IE7 on win7

[Koper]

Hi, I realize there is another similar thread here but it was simply full of "you shouldn't" answers so I decided maybe it was better to create a new thread.

I need IE6 because I'm a website developer and it's very important for me to make websites that look at least okay with IE6, since it has well over 10% market share. Same thing for IE7.

Considering how much they ignore web standards it's usually needed to heavily modify the HTML based on the user-agent to make it work. And this of course cannot be done without them installed.

So, is there any way to install them, excluding virtualization which is very annoying? (Uses a lot of ram, alt tab doesn't work as expected, copy & paste doesn't work or is more complicated, etc)

Before switching to windows 7 I used windows XP and had IE6, IE7 and IE8 installed without problems (Final Builds Site - Internet Explorer Collection). On windows 7 they don't seem to work, if I don't find a way that is not virtualization I guess i'll go back to XP.

 

[swarfega]

They seem to install and run ok for me.

 

[Koper]

They seem to install and run ok for me.

32 or 64 bit? I have 64 bit and IE7 doesn't install at all, IE6 installs but then when I run it it doesn't have an URL bar and keeps crashing

 

[Digerati]

I need IE6 because I'm a website developer and it's very important for me to make websites that look at least okay with IE6, since it has well over 10% market share. Same thing for IE7.

Considering how much they ignore web standards it's usually needed to heavily modify the HTML based on the user-agent to make it work.

I think your logic is flawed. Security trumps all and you are catering to those who put the rest of us at risk by them not keeping their systems updated and secure. IE6 is almost 7 years old. Those who still use it are at greater risk of compromise, and therefore, their machines are more susceptible to be put into service by a badguy and used to attack the rest of us to distribute spam or malicious code, or as part of a DDoS attack. Sadly, many who have failed to update, do so for fear their illegal copy of Windows will be detected, and perhaps disabled. Or maybe they fear the "Software Police" will come pounding on their door. Oh well.

IE7 and IE8 have compatibility modes but I have had no need to used them in some time - but they do work.

there is another similar thread here but it was simply full of "you shouldn't" answers

Well, sorry, but I think you should heed the roar, and do not reward those who care little for others.

10% of the market? Understand, that leaves 900,000,000 Windows machines out there not using IE6. That's a lot of potential customers, no?

While not a developer, I was a hardware guy at a major software company for many years. There is little business sense in keeping a development staff or expending manhours on development of multiple versions of the same product for multiple platforms, when a single product will do. And there is no sound logic to make a produce less secure to cater to those who refuse to upgrade to current, more secure technologies.

Users keeping their systems current is just one of the costs of computing. The tires on my vehicle still work, but the tread is getting thin, and the rain and snow season is upon us. I don't want to spend $100s on new tires. So, do I risk the safety of my family and others just to put off the inevitable? Or accept my responsibility as a car owner and buy new, safe tires, even though I'm a good driver. The answer is obvious.

I sympathize with those who have limited funds. But no one said life was fair. If a site cannot be viewed properly except with IE6, the site needs to get current.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi all
Older systems can always install firefox etc which will access newer sites without too many problems

OK if you start adding too many things like multi-media etc then you are going to have problems -- and don't forget a lot of people DON'T WANT all that extra stuff when they are simply browsing the web.

We aren't all 15 - 20 year olds who can't do anything unless their ears have those "white bud earphones" in them with some type of cacophony which sounds like you are encased in a metal cage with a bunch of road drills hammering away on the outside - PLEASE WEB DESIGNERS - make the audio stuff OPTIONAL - If I have to listen to "music" I don't want over compressed hideously "artifacted" stuff from no-hope bands etc.

I know several users still with W98 on a P3 machine - its fine for their needs - simple surfing, email and basic office apps - word and excel.

A lot of security issues are overblown anyway - hackers trying to create a Dos for say the London Stock exchange is one thing but if you don't use online banking, buy anything over the net, or use social networking sites then as in the case of these W98 users there's nothing to be scared of - and if they get infected it only takes 10 mins to re-create their W98 system on newer hardware and load it back again for them.

(Note I'm not saying this is true for everybody - but the OP shouldn't have to design his sites with IE6 in mind - people using really old equipment etc probably wouldn't want to access those anyway).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Koper]

I'm not losing over 20% of my income just to convince people to upgrade. If they don't want to it's their problem and virtually no business follows your "logic".

Maybe you misinterpreted what I said but I - of course - don't want to make it work only on IE6. I want it to work on all browsers that have a considerable market share (and that includes by a large margin IE6). You can send workarounds, fixes or completely different HTML based on the browser version.

 

[TheSchaft]

... Maybe you misinterpreted what I said but I - of course - don't want to make it work only on IE6. I want it to work on all browsers that have a considerable market share (and that includes by a large margin IE6). You can send workarounds, fixes or completely different HTML based on the browser version.

You might want to check your websites with something like this - Check Browser Compatibility, Cross Platform Browser Test - Browsershots It has all the MSIE browsers and a load more.

 

[H2SO4]

I'm not losing over 20% of my income just to convince people to upgrade. If they don't want to it's their problem and virtually no business follows your "logic".

Maybe you misinterpreted what I said but I - of course - don't want to make it work only on IE6. I want it to work on all browsers that have a considerable market share (and that includes by a large margin IE6). You can send workarounds, fixes or completely different HTML based on the browser version.

I for one understand your requirement to test your stuff on different end-user platforms.

Having said that, I think there are technical obstacles to running older versions of IE under Win 7 that are going to be difficult or impractical to overcome. The first issue that springs to mind is the "core" DLLs used by IE such as Wininet.dll and Urlmon.dll. The former exposes the WinInet API (built on top of Winsock), and the latter is responsible for much of the proxy and security zones architecture. The current versions of those DLLs are way different to what IE6 and IE7 required, and while it's possible to rig some sort of "frankenbuild" that would defeat the whole purpose - you'd never be sure whether problems encountered were the result of the unsupported configuration or a basic browser issue.

Short of using multiple client machines with different OSs, my suggestion would be to learn to love virtualisation.

 

[Digerati]

virtually no business follows your "logic".

I disagree. Big government networks, and in turn, big defense industry companies do. That trickles down. If only 10% of users out there still use IE6, I don't see how that accounts for 20% of your income. But nevertheless, unless they are contracting you to create specifically IE6 compatible sites, you are "enabling" your clients unsafe behavior. Beyond that, IE8 complies with "Web" standards. Sites that were tweaked for MS standards and IE6 NEED to go away.

 

[Koper]

virtually no business follows your "logic".

I disagree. Big government networks, and in turn, big defense industry companies do. That trickles down. If only 10% of users out there still use IE6, I don't see how that accounts for 20% of your income. But nevertheless, unless they are contracting you to create specifically IE6 compatible sites, you are "enabling" your clients unsafe behavior. Beyond that, IE8 complies with "Web" standards. Sites that were tweaked for MS standards and IE6 NEED to go away.

IE6 + IE7 is well over 20%. IE6 alone is also above 10%. Additionally an IE6 user is worth more than a Firefox user considering how many people are using extensions like AdBlock.

Please post a few examples of "big government networks" or "big defense industry companies" that don't support IE6. I'll make a list of the ones who went out of their way to support it:

• Google
• Facebook
• Yahoo
• Youtube
• msn
• Wikipedia
• Blogger
• Myspace
• Twitter
• Wordpress
• Rapidshare
• bing
• eBay
• Amazon
• Flickr
• AOL
• imdb
• Photobucket
• Blogspot
• Ask.com
• Apple
• Adobe

And btw no while IE8 is definitely better than IE6 and IE7 it doesn't comply with anything and it still has a lot of problems that need specific work-arounds. For example IE8 scores 20/100 on Acid3 (a test that checks how well a browser complies with standards) while chrome scores 100/100, firefox 94/100, safari 100/100, opera 100/100

 

[aem]

They seem to install and run ok for me.

hi sir, can i pls have the version of IE 7 you are using?....and maybe Windows 7 as well :sarc:

How did u get it to install lol?

 

[ccatlett1984]

I can confirm that the ie collection does not let you install ie7 on win7 ultimate RTM (running as standard administrator) & that IE6 Crashes without the address bar.

I will give it a try at home where i am running the "super-administrator" account as my main account.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there
It really doesn't matter "how compliant" a browser is with "Standards" if the code the browser is trying to reach isn't "standard" in the first place --- how many youngsters / sub teens "holed up in bedrooms etc" who are just experimenting with their first web designs are even going to be THINKING about standards - and these "tinkerers" are tomorrows real web designers BTW.

I think also the whole idea of online advertising is grossly overblown and exaggerated as a successful business medium -- I try and totally ignore ALL ads / popups etc and am not alone in this either. If the site is too annoying I simply look elsewhere -- and the VERY WORST offenders are those little irritating boxes that just popup right over the bit you are reading.

If I'm LOOKING for a product or actually shopping then that's another matter but general pervasive adverts that appear all over the place while I'm doing research etc --- no no.

In any case IE6 still will access a huge number of sites -- maybe it will miss some "multi-media" features but the browser in general will work properly accessing HTML code.

Your site in any case can always get the name of the browser accessing it so you should if necessary be able to code something like this in your site

case browser name
when MSIE6 ......
when MSIE7......
when MSIE8.......
whenFirefox...............
when Opera..........
when Konqueror ................. (popular linux KDE browser)

endcase.

A lot of the code might be "common" to all the browsers.

Whilst people CAN change the name of the browser identifier to confuse the target website the "average joe" won't know how to do this so this method should work in 90% of cases.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Digerati]

I'll make a list of the ones who went out of their way to support it:

Oh? Go "out of their way"? I don't think so. Where did you see that?

Before I go further, I must backup and apologize. I am not about to post links to government or defense contractor policy statements that state their support policies. As someone in the Defense IT industry for many years, I know it to be true. BUT, I can't expect you to take my word on my say, then not take your word under the same circumstances. So I retract my government and defense contractor statement - I should not have made a "statement of fact" I could not backup with substantiating evidence, even if a generalized statement. Certainly, there are many federal, state, and local networks without the resources (tax money) to upgrade legacy systems, and they are locked into legacy support until they do.

But now, you created(?) a list of specific examples. What's your source? For already, it was easy for me to discover some glaring big name inaccuracies in your list.

BTW I don't think it fair to lump IE7 in there with IE6, so I won't. It is a totally different, or rather many different buckets of worms supporting 1 version back than 2! But I do recommend all who are able to move to IE8 now, as part of good user discipline and safe computing practices necessary to protect us, our families, and our fellow Internet users from the badguys. Even if IE is not our default browser.

Now to specific inaccuracies in your list. Some on your list are NOT supporting IE6 now, and some are actively campaigning to stop.
Google Labels IE6 as "unsupported browser"
YouTube Will Be Next To Kiss IE6 Support Goodbye
WordPress.org- Stop Living in the Past
Apple's MobileMe drops support for IE 6
MDBG: Facebook - Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 is no longer supported

Not on your list but significant:
Can You Digg It? Maybe Not, If You’re Stuck On IE6
37signals Product Blog: Phasing out support for IE 6 across all 37signals products on August 15, 2008
IE6 No More - Home
Developers say Goodbye, Internet Explorer 6.
Internet Explorer 8 Released, Time To Drop IE6 Support | Goodings Media

Look at the economics. How many extra development man-hours are spent (wasted?) supporting that ancient technology and legacy browser? How much of your time is spent on IE6?

Look at Internet innovation and you can see it being held back. IE6 Must Die for the Web to Move On. IE6 does not support WSG Web Standards, CSS 2.1 styling, PNG images, URIs and more. IE6 was not built to meet today's Internet content delivery capabilities.

Look at those users - at least the innocent naive users who are stuck in a "sense of security" of times long gone, falsely led to believe their systems are keeping up with today's needs. They are living back in the day when people never locked their doors at night. You don't build a new super-highway to support a 1924 Model-T, you build it to meet the needs of today's, and tomorrow's cars. If you have a Model-T, and you can't do 75, you stay off the highway so you and your passengers are not put in danger, and to avoid being a danger to others.

I understand there are some out there stuck with Windows 2000, Windows ME and Windows 98 machines who cannot upgrade to IE7. Or they may be in a locked-down network using proprietary software. But IE6 is now 8 years old (I incorrectly said almost 7 above), two versions back, and is unsafe. It is time to move on and stop enabling those who are simply refusing to upgrade.

It would be different if those systems were not so easily turned into zombie machines then used as weapons against the rest of us, but that is not the case. Responsible Internet use requires users keep their systems current, even if they need to be pushed in to it.

***
Interesting debate (but then most between developers and hardware types are. ) - but I think I might have driven your thread a bit OT. Sorry. I leave with one parting shot. The reason "PC" hardware is, considering the technology, so easy to assemble into computers and maintain is because long ago, hardware makers got together and settled on the ATX Form Factor industry standard that dictates shape, size, and electrical characteristic for all power supplies, motherboards, cases, fans, add-on cards - you name it. Designers only have to deal with one standard. That lowers costs, provides for much greater flexibility in options, and makes it a whole lot better on consumers - the people we (as help providers) work for. A win-win for all.

Notebook makers, on the other hand, did not settle on a standard. So notebook makers, and their marketeers (who exalt their uniqueness), use proprietary parts and software that requires expensive proprietary support and replacements. That's not a win for consumers.

It really doesn't matter "how compliant" a browser is with "Standards" if the code the browser is trying to reach isn't "standard" in the first place --- how many youngsters / sub teens "holed up in bedrooms etc" who are just experimenting with their first web designs are even going to be THINKING about standards - and these "tinkerers" are tomorrows real web designers BTW.

Exactly my point. If there is only one standard being used, no one has to even THINK about it.

 

[ccatlett1984]

Instead of argueing over whether or not to actually code for older versions of web browsers, just help with the OP or stop posting in this thread. There are real reasons to have this ability, I am not going to list multiple "real" sites. Let me give you this case study.

You are a web developer, you have just got an account with a company (lets say a healthcare software maker) and you have been tasked with completely redesigning their site, but until you complete this (its a large site with lots of content) you must fully support the old code.

Above is a real reason to have access to the older versions of IE handy to check updates that might have to happen before you are finished coding the new site.

This is not a discussion of whether or not its "best practice" to install the older versions of IE, just help the OP out or leave the thread.

 

[H2SO4]

This is not a discussion of whether or not its "best practice" to install the older versions of IE, just help the OP out or leave the thread.

I think you may be failing to realise that "Internet Explorer 6.0 Service Pack 1" is the cause of degenerative western decadence and the declining morality of today's youth

Tongue-removed-from-cheek, I agree with your post. This is about comprehensive testing of a (presumably commercial) software product, not an ideological test of character.

 

[zezasu]

Why don't you guys just tell him to go back to Windows XP or later?

Those who don't go with a trend tend to get out-casted and left.
I say those who still want that, let them stay then realize they are behind and screwed (Not necessarily).

I realize you guys are trying to help and Understand you, but maybe the poster of the topic just has to do this to get paid? Simply Ignoring him.

I SAY take a hike go back to XP, because of people like you we are slowed down.
Use Xp buddy, if its not broken dont try to fix it, stick with XP for your IE6. Maybe later on you can change your ways and realize what some of these guys said were true.

 

[jimbo45]

Hi all
I can't see what's wrong with my suggestion -- all browsers report the version to the target website.

So Build your website using the MODERN code (IE8 etc compliant) and have bits encoded for IE6 etc.

as in my example above -- CASE BROWSERNAME
WHEN A.
WHEN B.

etc. (Programming 101 BTW using nearly any coding language will have constructs like this).

This will also make it SO EASY when you no longer need to support IE6 etc. Just comment out / delete the IE6 etc specific code.

If you really need to test your website using IE6 or other older versions of software why not just fire up a Virtual Machine or two -- on Microsoft Technet you can still get Windows 3 / 3.1 if you want.


Running W2K / W95 / W98 / XP on VM's is a doddle - so I'm not really sure what the OP is complaining about. You can even fire these VM's up on Linux boxes if you want.

This will certainly give you the opportuinity to test your site with older browsers -- why not go back further to IE 5.5 and W2K for example. Loads of people are actually STILL running W2K --it was quite a good system unlike the dreaded Windows Neanderthal (Windows NT).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[ccatlett1984]

I found a solution for you, just use windows 7's "xp mode" and install the ie collection inside the vm, then just publish the different IE shortcuts and you can use them as if they were native. the only caveate to this, is that you might not be able to use it for locally hosted sites.

 

[jimbo45]

I found a solution for you, just use windows 7's "xp mode" and install the ie collection inside the vm, then just publish the different IE shortcuts and you can use them as if they were native. the only caveate to this, is that you might not be able to use it for locally hosted sites.

Hi there

the problem with "XP Mode" is that you won't be able to install the older browsers on it and in any case performance is a DOG. Screen Resolution is also a problem in XP mode so the chances are your website could look nothing like it would do on a users machine running IE6 or whatever.

Running a Full Virtual Machine whether under Virtual PC, Vmware, Virtual box or other will give you the proper screen resolutions with whatever browsers you install and you will see how your web site looks when a user runs the same version of IE on "Real" hardware.

However to re-iterate if you don't want to insert code in your website to handle different browsers like I've suggested then using Virtual Machines is your only realistic way to proceed.

Cheers
jimbo