Is anyone still using Windows 7?

[ssokolow]

In some virtual machine applications you can even run a specific app on the guest on a host window without viewing the whole guest OS, so it is like you run the guest app locally but with much greater compatibility than using Wine to do it. This is called Unity mode in VMware Player. I used that to run Windows XP apps in Windows 7 and higher.

I don't know how Unity mode works, but VirtualBox calls it seamless mode and they accomplish it by masking out the background, resulting in window raise/lower behaviour similar to classic Mac OS where all the guest windows raise and lower as a single layer because, as far as the host OS is concerned, it's one big window with a lot of holes in it.

 

[spapakons]

I don't know how Unity mode works, but VirtualBox calls it seamless mode and they accomplish it by masking out the background, resulting in window raise/lower behaviour similar to classic Mac OS where all the guest windows raise and lower as a single layer because, as far as the host OS is concerned, it's one big window with a lot of holes in it.

In VMware Player every guest app running in Unity mode has its own independent window. That's on a Windows host, I haven't tried it on Linux. Even if it was the same window, it is not an issue since you would only run a single app at the time.

 

[ssokolow]

In VMware Player every guest app running in Unity mode has its own independent window. That's on a Windows host, I haven't tried it on Linux.

Hmm. Now you've got me curious what approach they took. Hooking more deeply into the OS? Emulating one display per window? Something else?

Even if it was the same window, it is not an issue since you would only run a single app at the time.

Depends on what you're doing with it. Plenty of applications use more than one window and it was a big enough irritation that, back in the Windows 3.1 days when the MDI paradigm was popular, one of the selling-points of Norton Desktop was that it either reimplements or hacks Program Manager and File Manager to break them apart into free-floating windows that can be interleaved in the desktop stacking order.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD7AezjG5YE

 

[spapakons]

It looks like the "geniuses" in Oracle removed Unity mode in the latest VMware version 17.5. They say it reached EOL. B**ls**t! The equivalent in Virtualbox is Seamless mode:

4.6. Seamless Windows

 

[michael diemer]

I see nothing wrong with your current approach (the "multiple machines" variant is what I do) but, for future reference:

1. The approach they're talking about is using a virtual machine, not Wine... that means literally installing a real copy of Windows 7 into a piece of software which allows you to run one OS inside another. (It's like an emulator, except that instead of running on a CPU implemented in software, Windows 7 will be running at full speed because the virtual machine tool will be leveraging the real CPU's "virtualization extensions" to split the real CPU up into one or more sandboxed virtual CPUs... it's how VPS (Virtual Private Server) web hosting works.)
   
   The only potential complications are making sure the virtualizing GPU drivers are installed in Windows 7 (you're not gaming, so you shouldn't have to worry about the virtual GPU not being advanced enough) and figuring out how to specify that certain devices (eg. your dongle) are assigned exclusively to the virtual machine so they can function the way they would with dual-booting. (Historically, it's been popular for people who are stubborn about Linux and gaming to give one GPU to Linux (eg. their onboard GPU) and another GPU exclusively to the Windows VM so they can use the Windows GPU drivers and the monitor's input switcher and have perfect compatibility and performance on the GPU too... though I think I heard that you need a certain class of motherboard to do that with PCIe devices rather than just USB ones.)
   
   The virtual machine will emulate the video card, mouse, keyboard, audio device, and network card, and that allows Windows 7 to show up in a window inside Linux instead of taking over those things exclusively. Likewise, what it sees as a hard drive will be stored inside a big file on Linux and you use something like Samba/Windows File Sharing to get your files back and forth.
2. Even with Wine, you shouldn't need to convert any VSTs. If the host application is a Windows EXE running in Wine or a virtual machine, then the VSTs should be Windows VSTs.

Fascinating, thanks for the clarification. When I used Linux for my music creation, I was actually using Reaper For Linux. It ran natively on Linux. but for Windows softwares, I had to use Wine to install them, then a converter (LinVst or Yabridge) to convert the vst's to the Linux format, <.so>. You can also install the Windows version of Reaper using wine, but almost nobody does that, as the native Linux version works much better. When I tried it, I could not use Windows vst's for some reason. Should have been able to, but they just didn't work.

I'm tempted to go back to the Reaper forum, and start a discussion about what you have described above. The "native only" folks would grumble about it, but the ones who need Windows vst's might be very interested.

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What Wine has to do with it? You would be running Windows in Virtualbox, so Wine is not necessary. In Virtualbox and other virtual machine applications you can connect any USB device to the guest (virtual machine). The device will work even if it is not installed in the host (has no drivers). All you need is drivers for the guest operating system. In the case of the USB dongle, Windows should detect it and automatically install drivers. That's the whole point. That's how I used my Iomega ZIP drive. I couldn't install it on Windows 11 (host), so I passed control of my parallel port to Windows XP (guest), the drive was detected and installed the official XP drivers.

PS: in case you didn't understand, when connecting a device to the guest OS, it is disconnected from the host, so it doesn't have to be installed on the host first, as it won't be there, are you physically disconnected it and moved to a different computer. All device data pass directly to the guest OS, the host doesn't interfere.

I should have specified that I was using Reaper For Linux, which runs natively on Linux, and works much better than installing the Windows version of Reaper via Wine. But to use vst's on the Reaper for Linux version, you have to use Wine to install them, then a converter to change them to the <.so> format, which Linux can use.

If I have the time, I might try this, but for now I'm in the midst of reworking all my projects, and only have time for that. I actually did try fooling around with the dongle to try and get it recognized in Linux, using Windows as a guest in Virtual Box. I remember asking a question on Linux Questions Forum about this. But I never stuck with it long enough to succeed.

But I'm still skeptical it would work. Ilok isn't just about drivers, it's about recognizing which operating system the license is on. I think the Ilok would fail to see that the license is on my Linux drive, because, in fact, it is on the Windows virtual drive. You can't have an Ilok working across systems like that, unless I'm mistaken. If you could, it would defeat the purpose of the Ilok, and they designed it to be impervious to all attempts to get around it.

 

[ssokolow]

If I have the time, I might try this, but for now I'm in the midst of reworking all my projects, and only have time for that. I actually did try fooling around with the dongle to try and get it recognized in Linux, using Windows as a guest in Virtual Box. I remember asking a question on Linux Questions Forum about this. But I never stuck with it long enough to succeed.

For VirtualBox specifically, I think you need the "VirtualBox Extension Pack" to forward raw devices like dongles from the host OS to the guest OS, and that's not installed by default because it's under their closed-source "Personal Use and Educational License". (Among other reasons, it phones home so Oracle can give your company a call about license fees if they see a bunch of connections from a corporate IP block.)

You download that at virtualbox.org

QEMU in KVM mode should just come with device forwarding support... but my understanding is that it's less of a "push button, receive virtual machine" solution for this use-case. I don't like what GTK continues to become, UI-wise, so I've never tried them, but I'm told that GUIs like Virtual Machine Manager or Boxes – Apps for GNOME are the simplest choice for QEMU.

But I'm still skeptical it would work. Ilok isn't just about drivers, it's about recognizing which operating system the license is on. I think the Ilok would fail to see that the license is on my Linux drive, because, in fact, it is on the Windows virtual drive. You can't have an Ilok working across systems like that, unless I'm mistaken. If you could, it would defeat the purpose of the Ilok, and they designed it to be impervious to all attempts to get around it.

The idea is that the license goes on your virtual machine's Windows drive and you configure the virtual machine system to pass the dongle through to the Windows machine so that, from the software's perspective, Linux plays a similar role to your BIOS and it's all happening under Windows. As long as the software can still verify that you've got a valid dongle and the dongle doesn't see multiple virtual machines trying to use it simultaneously, I don't see why that would be a problem.

 

[michael diemer]

ssokolow said:

The idea is that the license goes on your virtual machine's Windows drive and you configure the virtual machine system to pass the dongle through to the Windows machine so that, from the software's perspective, Linux plays a similar role to your BIOS and it's all happening under Windows. As long as the software can still verify that you've got a valid dongle and the dongle doesn't see multiple virtual machines trying to use it simultaneously, I don't see why that would be a problem.

So, you're saying I would install the licensing software not on Linux, but on the Windows virtual drive? What I was doing when using Linux, was that I had the licensing software on my Linux drive. If I then put the license on the cloud, or on the machine, no problem. But it could not see the dongle, so in the case of Vienna Instruments (VI), I had to use the cloud, as VI only lets you put the license on the dongle or the cloud. Other apps might let you put it on the machine, so those worked. But with VI, I had to be online.

It's an interesting idea, and I suppose the only way to resolve it is to try it. Which I may do at some point, when I have finished reworking all my music. That may be later this year or early next. I'll probably get bored enough at that point to try it. (I get bored easily, which is why I love composing orchestral music. It's very hard to do, and very time-consuming, so it keeps me occupied).

 

[spapakons]

ssokolow said:

The idea is that the license goes on your virtual machine's Windows drive and you configure the virtual machine system to pass the dongle through to the Windows machine so that, from the software's perspective, Linux plays a similar role to your BIOS and it's all happening under Windows. As long as the software can still verify that you've got a valid dongle and the dongle doesn't see multiple virtual machines trying to use it simultaneously, I don't see why that would be a problem.

So, you're saying I would install the licensing software not on Linux, but on the Windows virtual drive? What I was doing when using Linux, was that I had the licensing software on my Linux drive. If I then put the license on the cloud, or on the machine, no problem. But it could not see the dongle, so in the case of Vienna Instruments (VI), I had to use the cloud, as VI only lets you put the license on the dongle or the cloud. Other apps might let you put it on the machine, so those worked. But with VI, I had to be online.
It's an interesting idea, and I suppose the only way to resolve it is to try it. Which I may do at some point, when I have finished reworking all my music. That may be later this year or early next. I'll probably get bored enough at that point to try it. (I get bored easily, which is why I love composing orchestral music. It's very hard to do, and very time-consuming, so it keeps me occupied).

Yes, basically the USB dongle grants access to the Windows version of a certain application. So you have to install this application and license in Windows (guest OS) and pass control of the USB dongle to Windows so it can verify you are legally using the application. Exactly like using the same application and USB dongle on a physical machine. That's the idea. Since you cannot run the application natively on Linux (even using Wine), you install it on the virtual machine to use it indirectly. That's how I play old Windows 98 games. I run a Windows XP virtual machine* and install the games there. Some of them have a 16-bit installer and cannot be installed on a 64-bit version of Windows such as Windows 11. Those that use a 32-bit installer can be installed and played locally on Windows 11.

* I use a Windows XP guest so I can have 3D graphics acceleration. The Windows 98 driver of VMware SVGA doesn't support 3D acceleration.

 

[ranett]

I am using it now. I have a couple Win10 setups and a Win11 with an MBR boot. All on my current system. Win7 is my choice for everyday use

I have a similar setup. I use Win 10 most of the time but I still use Win 7 weekly. Win11 is on the back burner, really don't care for it.

 

[flavallee]

I have 5 tower PC's which dual boot Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.
Windows 7 gets used the most because it's easier to work with and easier to navigate through, and I like it better.
Windows 10 gets used when I need to visit websites and use apps that Windows 7 no longer supports.
I'll keep using this dual boot setup until Windows 7 becomes too restricted and too unsafe to use on-line.

 

[spapakons]

I have 5 tower PC's which dual boot Windows 7 Pro 64-bit and Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.
Windows 7 gets used the most because it's easier to work with and easier to navigate through, and I like it better.
Windows 10 gets used when I need to visit websites and use apps that Windows 7 no longer supports.
I'll keep using this dual boot setup until Windows 7 becomes too restricted and too unsafe to use on-line.

Unless you need the full native performance, you can run Windows 10 or 11 in a virtual machine, so you can use Windows 7 and browse those sites at the same time. No need to dual boot. Unless of course you want to play games or edit videos and need full 3D acceleration.

 

[siliconbeaver]

That's right my solution.

https://www.sevenforums.com/virtualization/429971-host-windows-7-a.html#post3535372

Host Windows 7
Guest Windows 10/11
VM: VirtualBox-7.0.26

As my daily task requests real-time data, a MSFT/excel feature which being presently supported on Windows 10/11 only.

Unless you need the full native performance, you can run Windows 10 or 11 in a virtual machine, so you can use Windows 7 and browse those sites at the same time. No need to dual boot. Unless of course you want to play games or edit videos and need full 3D acceleration.

 

[dapperdrake]

Am familiar with people who still have Windows 7 in use. Web browsing is on Windows 10 in the meantime. But not everything was switched over.

 

[spapakons]

Am familiar with people who still have Windows 7 in use. Web browsing is on Windows 10 in the meantime. But not everything was switched over.

I remember downloading My Pal browser (fork of Firefox) or Supermium browser (based on Chromium) in XP to overcome the much lower native versions. It looks like My Pal is left a little behind, but Supermium browser is currently at version 132.0.6834.224 R4 which is much higher than the maximum version 109 of Google Chrome for Windows 7 (latest supported). So you might be able to open these websites in Windows 7, if that's all you need from Windows 10/11.

Release Supermium 132.0.6834.224 R4 · win32ss/supermium · GitHub

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Just tested, Supermium 132 can open almost anything, so you don't have to dual-boot with Windows 10/11 if that's what you want and you don't care about Microsoft Store games/apps and new application compatibility.

 

[Cskully]

Yes very much so without any problems. Isn't everyone? What do you guys do drop your pc down the stairs every 3 years? I'm just not a buy and throw away person.
https://youtu.be/oJJGuIZVfLM?si=9hk3D9NdlChmWPtl&t=210

 

[spapakons]

I am running Windows 7 SP1 64-bit in a virtual machine to test compatibility with current applications. It is amazing that with a few exceptions everything still works, unlike old Linux and Mac OS versions. Maximum Microsoft Office is 2016, but you can install latest Open Office or Libre Office if you want to use them. Besides I haven't seen any feature in newer versions that I would need, so I can live with 2016. Latest browsers (Microsoft Edge for Windows 7, Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox) are at version 109, but you can install another browser such as Supermium (see my previous post) to bypass the annoying version check and browse anything you want. You can also fake the browser version by changing the user agent. Latest VLC and MPC-HC can be installed and work in Windows 7. All Windows Core versions and .NET versions can be installed in Windows 7 including the last active .NET 9 and the preview version of .NET 10. Latest supported Microsoft PowerShell version is 7.2.23. Unless you need compatibility with latest 7.5.1 version, you shouldn't notice any difference. Also latest Java, Adobe Reader and many other applications can be installed and work in Windows 7. For protection you can install Microsoft Security Essentials which is equivalent to Windows Defender for Windows 10/11 and it regularly takes the same security updates! So unless you need Microsoft Store games/apps and compatibility with latest Microsoft or other software and new hardware, you can keep using Windows 7 many years longer.

 

[YC69]

I am using Windows 7 on VMware

 

[Cskully]

Latest browsers (Microsoft Edge for Windows 7, Google Chrome, Mozilla Firefox) are at version 109, but you can install another browser such as Supermium (see my previous post) to bypass the annoying version check and browse anything you want.

You write as if there is an assumption some things do not work but everything works. Firefox 115 ESR is still being updated and we should encourage the continuation of that, windows defender and security essentials still update. I only use FF115 except on Accuweather radar which suddenly stopped working in May and now use Chrome portable for that. Hopefully FF and Accuweather will fix it. I wrote and they said they knew about the problem. I have used windows xp on VM but the computer I use to print to still runs XP which still works. Back in the day when I had more interest in wasting my life on computers I maxed out the security on my xp machine. Never had any problems since. Think this buy-and-throw-away-buy-and-throw-away and forced obsolescence scam the corporations try to force us into is a racket. I don't need to impress anyone. For what? They aren't going to come over and have drinks with me because I have a slick machine. Everyone who has new and expensive stuff do not impress me because they are nearly incompetent and can barely cook dinner.

 

[flavallee]

My 3rd generation laptop runs Windows Vista and Windows 7.
My 4th generation laptop and 3 towers run Windows 7 and Windows 10.
My 6th generation tower runs Windows 7 and Windows 10.
My 7th generation tower runs Windows 10 and Windows 11.
They all do what I need them for.
I am in no hurry to give them a burial and buy something newer.

 

[spapakons]

You write as if there is an assumption some things do not work but everything works. Firefox 115 ESR is still being updated and we should encourage the continuation of that, windows defender and security essentials still update. I only use FF115 except on Accuweather radar which suddenly stopped working in May and now use Chrome portable for that. Hopefully FF and Accuweather will fix it. I wrote and they said they knew about the problem. I have used windows xp on VM but the computer I use to print to still runs XP which still works. Back in the day when I had more interest in wasting my life on computers I maxed out the security on my xp machine. Never had any problems since. Think this buy-and-throw-away-buy-and-throw-away and forced obsolescence scam the corporations try to force us into is a racket. I don't need to impress anyone. For what? They aren't going to come over and have drinks with me because I have a slick machine. Everyone who has new and expensive stuff do not impress me because they are nearly incompetent and can barely cook dinner.

I didn't know Firefox ESR 115 can be installed on Windows 7, haven't tried. Also I haven't though about using the portable versions. I will try and confirm it. Thanks for sharing.

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I loaded my Windows 7 64-bit virtual machine and tried both browsers. I confirm that Mozilla Firefox ESR 115 WORKS in Windows 7. Thanks for sharing. I tried to install the regular Firefox Quantum version and the maximum supported by Windows 7 is indeed 109. I hadn't thought the ESR version might work, so I hadn't tried it. I will try a few sites and report compatibility. However the latest portable version of Google Chrome DOESN'T work. It displays a warning that versions 110 and newer are not supported in Windows 7 and 8/8.1. So the latest version of Google Chrome for Windows 7 is indeed version 109. I wasn't totally wrong.