Solved Move OS from System Partition (Win XP & Win 7 Dual Boot)

Thanks to everyone. To answer the question as to why "Drive H" was marked Active - before I installed Win7, I made a clone copy of the WinXP partition from Disk 0 over on to Disk 1 ------ just in case something went wrong with my attempt at building a dual-boot. After a few months of being satisfied with the system functioning correctly, I deleted that copy of WinXP on Disk 1 ---- that partition has not been used since.

Am I correct in thinking that the partition currently marked "System (and Active)" is marked that way because its where the bootmgr is located? And, that the Win7 partition is not active for the same reason?
 

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Correct. Only the partition holding the System boot files should be marked Active.

I have already explained several times that your System boot files are on XP partition.
 
Sorry I didn't understand your several attempts to explain. I only thought we needed the bootmgr and BCD data; I didn't realize WinXP still needed all those other files.

So I don't bother you again, can you point me to an tutorial of how to remove WinXP and make Win7 the Acitve,System, boot for future reference?

Thanks for your patience and help.
 

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So I don't bother you again, can you point me to an tutorial of how to remove WinXP and make Windows 7 the Acitve,System, boot for future reference?

WHS posts 2 & 3
 

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Really? WHS 2nd post said to make one partition (my Data) logical rather than primary. I'm ok with that.

His 3rd post said to copy bootmgr to the Win7 Partition.

That's it? Its that easy?

At that point will the Win7 partition be "System" and "Active?" Won't I have to run EasyBCD or something to change the dual-boot and remove the WinXP entry?
 

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The procedure we've used here since before Win7 was even released and has worked successfully for countless thousands of users is to mark the Win7 or it's System Reserved partition (preferred) Active, then run Startup Repair - Run up to 3 Separate Times until Win7 starts and holds the System Active Boot files.

You can then delete XP partition and resize C into its space if desired using the Partition Wizard boot disk which will not fail while all others except Disk Mgmt (which cannot resize to the left) can: Partition Wizard Resize Partition - Video Help.

If you use EasyBCD to move the System boot files to C you will lose the Repair My Computer link on the F8 Advanced Boot tools which is why it is not a Best Practice.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/71432-partition-mark-active.html
 
Greg,

Thanks - it all makes sense - finally. Appreciate your (and others) help.
 

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To begin, there is an old saying "if it's not broken, don't fix it" that said, another point I think the others are getting at is that there are two boot loading systems, I have been struggling with moving my XP/Win7 dual boot to another HDD, and have picked up bits and pieces as I struggle through this quagmire (lol) XP uses ntldr and ntdetect.com and the text editable boot.ini file. Win7 uses bootmgr and points to winload.exe which will be located on the target partition anyhow.

I may be wrong but it sounds like what you are asking is to emulate what everyone is talking about creating the 100MB boot partition setup. Which I am not familiar with myself since I did a traditional XP install and then later added on Win7 on the second partition.

Thing is if XP is loaded first and Win7 after on the 2nd partition. Bootmgr doesn't actually remove the original XP boot system but 'deactivates' ntldr by rewriting the MBR to look for bootmgr first instead and then 'subsumes' the XP ntldr under its own bootmgr, as you must notice when you boot. The Win7 bootmgr runs, and if you select XP, you can see that it has actually then just initiated the ntldr / boot.ini setup. i.e. you can now see the previous boot.ini file that was loaded by the ntldr system This is two separate boot loading systems.

So I agree there's loads that could go wrong if you play around with this too much, on the other hand if you enjoy the learning process which I normally do when I am not in a hurry to get a system up and running, and you don't mind taking the risk of experimenting, there is always the long term advantage of developing a deeper insight that will come in handy on future installs... it's all trade offs... but that is what I am going through right now, call me jaded but this isn't fun anymore, (especially when it feels like MS is just making things purposely difficult to maintain the value of their quasi useless MCSE certification money pit, but that's another story...)

Technically assuming you have a setup as described above which is how mine is, and you really wanted to do this (but I agree with Greg I don't see it being practical imo) if you know how to read the boot.ini file you could tell it to go to the next partition, and then move your whole XP partition image there, but then you would have an issue because XP which was originally a C: drive OS for example, would now be on D: and that would raise all kind of havoc. Same issue for Win7. And that, I currently don't have any answers for although I think there are some tools inside the OS for transferring relevant info to another drive letter, etc but I have never futzed with the internal MS file utilities, preferring instead to just backup the entire partition (although maybe I should start playing with it, the way things are going... anyhow...

On that note I have also found a couple of 'bugs' in the EasyBCD editor that are confounding my efforts, like it won't copy backup BCD images to designated folder paths, and it doesn't want to rewrite the MBR for XP as it does for Win7, so I am now double checking everything I am doing. Thus the one motto that has stead me well through the ages of (MS) is "if it's not broken, don't fix it"

For more context on this understanding which may help you decide if this is "really" what you want to do, I would check out this page Windows XP - EasyBCD - NeoSmart Technologies Wiki It will give you more insight on this ntldr vs bootmgr issue. I also read someone installing OS's on primary drives bootable from each drive, and then using a Master Boot Loader software Like Grub that would choose between OSs on start up. But that sounds like a ground up rebuild...

I may consider something like that as well in the future, as an ultimate solution. But I won't attempt it as just an "add on" adjustment to my original setup. The issue I have there is apparently it will boot the chosen OS as C: and that will realign all the other partition letter assignments, in particular it will bugger my personal data location on E: and if I chose Win7 it will load that as C also. ie My traditional XP on C and Win7 on D and personal data on E goes bye bye. Multiple primary partition behaviour changes all that.

Multiple primary partitions I have noticed operate very much using the old DOS rules of having 2 hard drives each with primary partitions and extended logical drives, It will make the partition of whichever hard drive has an active primary C: then assign D,E,F to the logicals of that drive AND THEN assign the next letter to the NEXT primary partition and assign the additional letters following that...

ie. it treats each primary like DOS would if you had two physical hard drives both with a primary partition and logical partitions on each. Now if you have Two HDDS with multiple primaries it's even messier (imo) but that's another story... (haven't bothered to go that far yet)

So far I have forced letter assignments on my single disk with 3 primaries in Diskpart to contain that but I don't know how solid that is, as I have seen in the Win7 recovery CD that it reverts back to the old DOS algorithm. And I think I saw my second primary as K: (I have 10 partitions, with 3 primaries. So for example it assigns C: to first primary, assigns the following letters to the remaining 7 logicals D-J, then goes back and assigns the 2nd primary partition as K: What is old is new again! (lol) just my two cents...
 

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Yes, that's what I was getting at - a separate boot partition. Oh, well.

And, it never bothered me, since I couldn't understand it, but when I boot to Win7, which is on the second partition, its Drive letter become "C" and WinXP is shown as "D"; but when I boot into WinXP, which is on the first partition, its Drive letter becomes "C" and Win7 is shown as "D." They just seem to switch and the "current, active, booted" OS is always Drive C.

This has never affected any data partitions since they are stable and start with "Drive E."

This probably goes way back to the DOS days of "floppy" drives were "A" & "B" and DOS was always "C."
 

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If you don't mind - just a little more guidance.

Are there advantages when making a disk image to (1) make an image of the entire disk or (2) make images of each partition, individually? In my particular case, the WinXP partition, the Win7 partition, the Data partition, etc. or the entire drive?

Thanks
 

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There is no reason to do that. If you want to create a dedicated boot partition which is not necessary, I'd shrink from the left using Partition Wizard CD Resize Partition (Video Help). create Primary NTFS partition marked Active then run Startup Repair - Run up to 3 Separate Times . You'd then have to add XP from Win7 using EasyBCD. It isn't guaranteed, hardly worth the risk.

If you'd prefer having Win7 as the System partition now, mark it Active in Disk Mgmt, then power down to boot into the Win7 installer or Repair CD to run Startup Repair - Run up to 3 Separate Times until Win7 boots again and holds the System Active flag.

Then you can add XP using EasyBCD (click Download - no Name or Email required) and since it will no longer be the System partition can be deleted at any time in Disk mgmt. Then you can resize to the left into its space using Partition Wizard Resize Partition Video Help.

Otherwise wait until you are ready to remove XP and follow the same steps to change Win7 to System partition.
 
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Well I have continued in my playing with these and getting a lot of great mileage (feedback) on this thread - http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/5186-how-can-i-make-bootable-dvd-4.html

But I like your questions Roxie, it is pretty close to my kind of questions... ; ) I used to use Ghost, (but think they have fallen behind, moved to Acronis 11, and 13 and just tried Clonezilla (good program, not enough flexibility) And since I have torn apart my system and have most everything backed up and waiting for parts I have been tinkering with blank hdds. Getting my knowledge updated on Win7 from my outdated (but still fundamentally useful DOS, NT, Win98, 2K background... knock on wood...) But it is accurate to say us Windows (suckers) are behind the curve on Boot software. And that is an achilles heel. I fully concur, thus my interest in getting up to speed here. I do like my "dual boot XP back up OS".

That said, in general cloning a disk is great if you like your existing set up and don't want to change anything. Personally I have different partitions dedicated to mp3, internet video, drivers, install downloads, etc. Some get more access and modification and therefore require more frequent backup. So I have a 2nd smaller hdd, with very similar partition layout that I back up full partitions to. I don't like the idea of incremental, and it's a simple hardware solution that works for me.

So the idea of compartmentalizing my data, and backing up different partitions at different times according to need, simplifies management and maintenance. I think it makes for a more stable disk too (less defragmentation, etc) And lets me spread out and target defragging efforts. Like I don't like to defrag video and mp3 data at all but copy them back and forth to straighten out files, etc... and things like that...

Now that I have a positive clean Win7 install, seen the creation of the 100MB partition, and cloned it disk to disk successfully. I want to see if I can add another OS (XP) and then install GrubforDOS and see how that works. And if I can get all that down which is a nice conservative target. I will be happy! (for now...)

When I used Acronis for back up, so far I did a clone. But that was only a test situation, I had a clean hdd with no other real partitions. Now because I am a partition 'junky'. You have just made me realize I want to make my next test a partition backup / reinstallation to see how that works before I add on the 2nd OS. I will keep you posted.

I will add. I gathered from the others, that to create the 100MB partition you need a clean unpartitioned drive. But... if you have existing partitions and you want to install a new OS version (for whatever reason) or you want to re-install your OS. You can recreate the same 100MB partition config by deleting both partitions (the 100MB System Reserve Partition (ie. not assigned a letter) and the C) and reinstalling fresh into that unallocated space. My understanding is that it will recreate the 100MB and C again even with existing partitions sitting there. Although I haven't done it myself. It makes sense.

Also... I am NOT sure but I think it was also said you can create an unassigned 100MB at the beginning of the disk, then the C, make the unassigned (first 100MB) active (in another OS using computer management for ex) and then do your install onto C, (but DO NOT quote me on this, I am not sure if he then said that wasn't a correct interpretation or not) So I think that will be on the test list. and I will update you with results... (or bug me if I forget...)

to summarize
ie. going to try the install into unallocated space at beginning of partition with existing primary/data partitions left on the hdd (predict it should work very well)
creating the 100MB and the C at the beginning and trying to recreate the same config manually (not sure how that will go)
and backing up 100MB and C as partitions and reinstalling to an unallocated space on existing hdd (predict that should work fine)

And finally (just to throw a monkey wrench in the works... never say never) this whole thing started when I cloned my entire 1TB to another 1TB (XP on C (fat32), W7 on logical D plus multiple partitions) and it DIDN'T WORK. Which makes me want to change the XP to a NTFS from now on and also install W7 on C. I really hate changing two variables like that at the same time, but oh well... "the times they are a changin'"
 

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?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>updated results,

ok I tried backing up partition images of my reserved 100MB partition and C: then I tried to recover them onto another hard drive. I set the two hard drives so that the system would boot from the newly recovered partition and the other was set to non booting in CMOS. What happened next was a surprise. I found it started up the OS on the hard drive in the non boot section of the bios! This tells me that the copying of the MBR is like copying a shortcut from one computer to another. Sometimes the shortcut will still point back to the original file on the the other computer! (smart little shortcuts... maybe too smart!) I think this is what happened here too. The MBR on the newly installed hdd was telling to system to go back to the original hdd (set to non boot) and it started it back up again! Just to confirm this. I shut off the original hdd and reboot and sure enough I got the "inaccessible device" error. Very interesting insight on backinup/restoring and the MBR. It is telling it to go back to the original drive!

Man this boot thing is hard to tame...

So this time I looked around and pulled some advice from one of Greg posts (this one here) http://www.sevenforums.com/general-...g-startup-repair-doesnt-work.html#post1550839

I tried various things but eventually what got it working was the following:

...click through to Recovery Tools list to open a Command Line,
type: bootrec /fixboot then bootrec /fixmbr to see if it forces installation to show.


Then ran "Startup Repair repeatedly". (did it just once)
and it started right up... now that felt good... to feel like I was getting a little control

But here is the weird thing... I made to two additional partitions after C: just to format the leftover space. It made the 3rd partition (D: ) the active system partition! Removed the letter and made it A Reserved System partition! WTH!

just when I thought it was making sense... (lol)

So... I reactivated the 100MB (again!) copied the boot files from D to the Reserved partition, (note: the bootmgr file is 'immovable') took the letter off the 100MB and put it back on the D: and ran the Win7 Disk again... again I did a repair and again it booted up

(At this point I am thinking that bootrec /fixboot then bootrec /fixmbr is a winning combination)
Checked in Computer Management (fingers crossed)

Would you believe it? It worked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcwWl5JBnoU
It set up the boot files on the Reserved 100MB assigned C: D: and E: correctly... (I'm stunned)

I then reformatted D: as the only way to remove the boot files from it...

Moral of the story:
So much for transferring the MBR when recovering image partitions of the Reserved Partition and C Drive, I am not sure what the hoyle strategy should be for future recoveries at this stage... hmmm
 

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The procedure is the same as it's been since we developed it here while Win7 was in beta:

Mark the intended System partition Active and run Startup Repair up to 3 separate times with reboots.

Bootrec and bootsect commands are all automated in Startup Repair and don't need to be run manually unless the OS is not seen to repair in WinRE. Then bootrec /fixboot and /fixmbr can jumpstart it to appear.

The System partition can be changed with commands but not all parameters are covered without the multi-faceted approach of Startup Repair, e.g. the Repair console disappears off the F8 Boot Tools menu.
 
That just gets me, it seems a complicated and crude way to move a partition image of an OS to another hdd. MS making it difficult no doubt. And it showed me the MBR image is taking things a little too literally. And needs to loosen up a bit... as in ... "like hey just point me to the bootmgr and load the winloader.exe and don't get so caught up what hdd your on!"

Sounds like we are really dependent then on that Startup Repair on the Install DVD. Is there any way of extracting out a faster installing slimmed down version?

Also I was reading somewhere someone mentioned not using System Repair on a USB but stick? but to use the DVD... has anyone heard that or know what the reasoning behind that was?
 

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GeForce 6200
No, you can repair Win7 using stick as well as using DVD or REpair CD.

I explained the reason why Startup Repairs are the comprehensive method.
 
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