Normal service is resumed as Windows 7's growth once again.....

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...I have had great respect for you, your expertise and knowledge and your way to work with various issues of so many OPs. But maybe this virtual forums life really is a metaphor for real life in that sense that as idols sometimes do fall in real life, they seem to fall here, too. Your usage of the word crap or rather letters cr in front of every word you can possible use them is naive, stupid and really disrespectful towards all those users who think differently than you. You really should be ashamed of that and keep your crApps and cRaptures and such to yourself. If you had let it be a one time "cool" joke in one post, that had been OK, but to continue this post after post is just plain stupid...

If Greg was the only one who felt that way, I would agree with you but the fact is there are a lot of people who share that view who have actually have tried to use Win8.0 and 8.1, including me. In terms of capability, Win 8 is an improvement over Win 7 but in terms of usability, it falls short for most people. I had pretty much no trouble moving from XP to Win 7; when I tried using Win 8.0 and, later on 8.1, even with help, I found it awkward, even with help, due to changes from they way things had been done in Win 7 that were pointless and completely unnecessary. I'm glad you were able to adapt to Win 8 but not everyone has had that happy experience. It's because of the difficulty of making such a drastic transition and the awkward workflow Win 8 GUI creates, even with a start menu replacement, that businesses have been upgrading to Win 7 when moving from XP and others are staying with Win 7; training costs alone would have been killers; then there would have also been the reduction in productivity.

I evaluated Win 8 when it first came out, didn't like it (to put it mildly), and decided to stay with Win 7 when I built my current machine and needed to buy an OS. Even if Win 9 proves to better than Win 7 in all aspects, I'm staying with Win 7 until several months to a year before it reaches its EOL. Why change as long as it meets my needs without having to completely learn how to use a computer all over again?

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

App's priced right I also don't have a problem with.
Look what it cost to get something from Microsoft just to read a pdf file.

PDF reader is native in W8

So what? Free PDF readers abound. What M$ should have done is come up with a full fledged PDF creation and editing program, like Foxit and Adobe Acrobat, for M$ Office. If M$ will get its head out of the sand and forget about ramming subscription and cloud computing down our throats, they have a golden opportunity to pickup a boat load of business from people abandoning Adobe Acrobat after XI reaches EOL in 2017 and only a subscription program will be available. I know I will be abandoning Adobe come 2017 unless they come to their senses; Foxit is looking pretty good.

 

[Britton30]

I've only used the free Adobe Reader, formerly Acrobat, and dumped it about two years ago for Foxit. Of course all I need it for is to open PDF files

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

I've only used the free Adobe Reader, formerly Acrobat, and dumped it about two years ago for Foxit. Of course all I need it for is to open PDF files

I create and edit quite a few PDFs and need far more flexibility than what I could get from virtual printers. Also, my ADF scanner (Fujitsu ScanSnap 1500) uses Distiller in Adobe Acrobat for directly creating PDFs from scans; its successor, the iX500, does the same. If Fujitsu doesn't come up with a replacement for Adobe Acrobat in its ScanSnap drivers after 2017 or becomes Twain compliant, I'll be forced to scan to JPEG and use another program, probably Foxit, to create the PDFs.

 

[Kari]

...I have had great respect for you, your expertise and knowledge and your way to work with various issues of so many OPs. But maybe this virtual forums life really is a metaphor for real life in that sense that as idols sometimes do fall in real life, they seem to fall here, too. Your usage of the word crap or rather letters cr in front of every word you can possible use them is naive, stupid and really disrespectful towards all those users who think differently than you. You really should be ashamed of that and keep your crApps and cRaptures and such to yourself. If you had let it be a one time "cool" joke in one post, that had been OK, but to continue this post after post is just plain stupid...

If Greg was the only one who felt that way, I would agree with you but the fact is there are a lot of people who share that view who have actually have tried to use Win8.0 and 8.1, including me. In terms of capability, Win 8 is an improvement over Win 7 but in terms of usability, it falls short for most people. I had pretty much no trouble moving from XP to Win 7; when I tried using Win 8.0 and, later on 8.1, even with help, I found it awkward, even with help, due to changes from they way things had been done in Win 7 that were pointless and completely unnecessary. I'm glad you were able to adapt to Win 8 but not everyone has had that happy experience. It's because of the difficulty of making such a drastic transition and the awkward workflow Win 8 GUI creates, even with a start menu replacement, that businesses have been upgrading to Win 7 when moving from XP and others are staying with Win 7; training costs alone would have been killers; then there would have also been the reduction in productivity.

It is each and every users right to call an application crap. What I find very offensive is when a senior member, an MVP uses his assumed influence and continues his childish "cool" wordplay adding extra letters to "crapifize" each and every Modern Windows App, using his alleged power to tell for those who have not even seen Windows 8 how crap the apps are. His opinion was clear after mentioning it first time, any further wordplay is only for the purpose of being "cool".

For your information, I use Windows Reader App (Windows 8 built-in PDF reader) almost exclusively because it is (as so many other Modern Apps) so flexible and easy to use:

​

I do not believe I am the only one.

Another of these apps Greg would like everyone to think is crap is the Modern Video App, which I also use quite a lot, partly for same reasons than the Reader App: it's flexible and easy to use, doing very well what it is designed to do:

​

I evaluated Win 8 when it first came out, didn't like it (to put it mildly), and decided to stay with Win 7 when I built my current machine and needed to buy an OS. Even if Win 9 proves to better than Win 7 in all aspects, I'm staying with Win 7 until several months to a year before it reaches its EOL. Why change as long as it meets my needs without having to completely learn how to use a computer all over again?

That's one thing I have been trying to understand, always failing: someone has tried very briefly the first versions of Windows 8, has never used Windows 8.1 Update 1 (current version) but still insists being qualified to judge this totally different OS than the one he / she has tried a few times long time ago.

 

[gregrocker]

I appreciate your concern for my "assumed influence" which is nil except for Win7, but it isn't my reputation which is being ruined here by ill-tempered personal attacks.

My passion is as real and valid as yours, and if more colorful then that's just my style as its been all along. Like you I can be cranky but bear no ill-will and only go as low as disappointment.

I am saddened to see you go so mean and viscious, Kari. I had always thought of you as a friend.

Remember where you are.

 

[Kari]

OK, truce: You are The Authority to decide which apps are crap. I will no more criticize or question your authority in this subject, consulting you in the future when I want to know if an app belongs to Official Crap List.

 

[gregrocker]

Last I'll say about Ate 8.

 

[Boozad]

Put your sig back in the center Greg.

 

[Kari]

Quite heavy, Greg. Not being a native English speaker I had to Google Basket Case: "a person or thing regarded as useless".

Thank you. Notice that all I have done is called you childish because of your wordplay. If you were a man you'd admit that.

Please notice that all possible future apologies are useless. I am not capable to forgive you calling me useless.


EDIT:I am quite sure that the reference to 8 was added to your post only after I started typing my response.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

All right, you two start behaving yourselves or I'm turning this thread around and driving back home! And just wait 'til your father gets home!

 

[gregrocker]

It isn't about you, Kari.

Put your sig back in the center Greg.

I did go way out in left field there, huh? The graphics orderlies are chasing me down.

Needed some shock therapy.:shock:

 

[Boozad]

I did go way out in left field there, huh? The graphics orderlies are chasing me down.

Needed some shock therapy.:shock:

Once you been in the arty farty place mate we're on your coat tails forever.

 

[A Guy]

Shall we agree 8 is a "polarizing" OS? I really can't comment on 8, as I have never used it in any form. I like 7, I will gladly stay with it until I cannot, or something better comes along. BUT, I can see people who's opinions I respect, who like 8.

They don't say everyone should too, but rather try to counter arguments that they see as false. No one ever said some things need to be changed, but that rather they can usually be easily done.

The counter argument is that these changes did not have to be done in 7. But 7 also required adding 3rd party programs, and that could be considered having to make changes as well.

I believe that the main issue is, making 8 work like 7. Much as people wanted/want to make 7 work like Vista/XP.

On the face of it, I don't like the idea of apps as they have been presented so far. Things as simple as exiting them, size on screen, and the idea that they (like the OS itself), will be subscription/pay. I'm not saying that there are not some great, free apps right now, just that the whole pay apps strategy MS seems to be taking does not bode well for the future.

I must say I don't like to see my friends fighting over it, but then, that's me.

A Guy

 

[Kari]

   Note

I got a few messages about this 4 step procedure, asking more information on how to make 8.1 behave more like 7. I have now edited this post to add information and tutorial links.

For the future readers of this thread:

Please use your own brain and see it yourself, do not believe the disinformation given to you without checking it yourself. The current version of Windows 8, the 8.1 Update 1, can be used almost exactly (additional features exist) as if it were Windows 7. You do not have to use any cloud services, at least nothing more you are already used to use in Windows 7, and you don’t have to use any Modern Apps a.k.a. Windows Store Apps.

Important to notice is that this will not take hours as you have read. Instead it only takes two or three minutes, that being a one time operation you don’t have to do ever again.

Here’s the 4 step check list, you can find more information at our sister site the Eight Forums for each of these steps:

1. Set up Windows 8.1 using a local account. See tutorial, step 18 shows how to set up Windows 8.1 using a local account instead of a Microsoft Account: Clean Install - Windows 8
2. When booted first time, set Windows to boot directly to desktop. See tutorial: Desktop or Start - When Sign in or Close apps in Windows 8 (time required: about 10 seconds)
   
   
   
   
   
   
3. Install Classic Shell or any other third party Start Menu replacement if you do not like the 8.1 default one. Free download: Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements (time required: a minute or two)
4. Images and media files: Launch Windows Media Player once accepting default settings. In doing this your media files will be played on desktop instead of the Modern Video App. Windows 8.1 Update 1 uses the Windows Picture Viewer (desktop) by default for viewing images so for image viewing you need to do nothing (time required: about 30 seconds)

Now your Windows 8.1 looks and behaves like Windows 7. Only things you need the modern UI for after this is to change lock screen background, add users and read PDF files (but then, Seven can't read PDF files by default). Windows 8 has a Modern built-in PDF reader app, but if you’d like to use a desktop reader as in Windows 7, the procedure is the same: you need to download and install a third party reader app.

Your PC will most probably also be faster and more reliable.

Kari

 

[Indianatone]

OK Kari.
About 3 weeks ago I read what you had written in the start of this thread and thought I have 2 Windows 8.1 Pro licences lets put at least one to use as something other than a VM and let me set it up on the bare metal and use my skill set to tweak it to look and feel like Windows 7 ie Desktop mode no Metro.
So I set it up first on a spare partition on a regular HD and set it to boot to desktop, installing classic shell, disabling the built in apps and setting files to open in my own programs, Foxit, Word, Winamp, Irfanview, ACDSee et al. The only thing that I miss is the eye candy of Aero. Windows 8.1 works very well and I am using it on my 2 main machines. I have since added it to a dual booting SSD with Windows 7 and I am about to put the other Windows 8.1 on another SSD recently purchased. Yes for the average Joe it is a PIA but with some work it is very nice. I can see the image is slightly better on 7 on the same hardware and I suspect that is due to Aero being in the mix. If they put that back in as an option in 8.2 or 9 that would be a winner. I don't care about fast boot times I just want it to work and do as its told.
So if you still have 7 don't bother but if you have 8.1 preferably with an ISO you should try it and set it to desktop if you want Windows 7 mode.
Note to MS
On next version of Windows (9?) include a Windows 7 Desktop mode either via an emulator or in the initial set up for power users. Add touch to touch devices and allow Metro stuff to be an option we can not only turn off but un-install, likewise should the user have a lower power device enable the new experience and allow the desktop to be un-installed should they wish. Try not to be master of all and end up master of none.

 

[Golden]

For the future readers of this thread:

Please use your own brain and see it yourself, do not believe the disinformation given to you without checking it yourself. The current version of Windows 8, the 8.1 Update 1, can be used almost exactly (additional features exist) as if it were Windows 7. You do not have to use any cloud services, at least nothing more you are already used to use in Windows 7, and you don’t have to use any Modern Apps a.k.a. Windows Store Apps.

Important to notice is that this will not take hours as you have read. Instead it only takes two or three minutes, that being a one time operation you don’t have to do ever again.

Here’s the 4 step check list, you can find more information at our sister site the Eight Forums for each of these steps:

1. Set up Windows 8.1 using a local account
2. When booted first time, set Windows to boot directly to desktop (time required: about 10 seconds)
3. Install Classic Shell or any other third party Start Menu replacement if you do not like the 8.1 default one (time required: a minute or two)
4. Launch Windows Media Player once accepting default settings. In doing this your videos will be played on desktop instead of the Modern Video App (time required: about 30 seconds)

Now your Windows 8.1 looks and behaves like Windows 7. Only things you need the modern UI for after this is to change lock screen background, add users and read PDF files (but then, Seven can't read PDF files by default). Windows 8 has a Modern built-in PDF reader app, but if you’d like to use a desktop reader as in Windows 7, the procedure is the same: you need to download and install a third party reader app.

Your PC will most probably also be faster and more reliable.

Kari

This is the finest reply I have read to make working with Windows 8 easy - kudos for one of the few truly intellectual posts on this topic Kari

 

[andrew129260]

 

[Britton30]

While I don't want to appear intellectual I will say I don't like Win 8. No matter if it can be kinda/sorta made to look like a real OS like w7, it looks like crap with the flat, squared off, uninteresting windows and menus.

Yeah I did give it a try out for about a month and I still didn't like it. I needed no more time "to get used" to it. If it doesn't appeal to me after 4 weeks, it ain't gonna happen after 8 weeks. Or 15 weeks.

I don't try to tell anyone that Win 8 sucks, but what it is I don't like about it, not that it makes a difference why I don't like Win 8, Fords, Bleu Cheese, long walks on the beach, or anything else, my choice.

I'm not the type who will blindly follow anyone's recommendations without my own research/testing.

The preceding has been the opinion of the writer and does not represent the position of the management of Seven Forums or its sponsors.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

While I don't want to appear intellectual I will say I don't like Win 8. No matter if it can be kinda/sorta made to look like a real OS like w7, it looks like crap with the flat, squared off, uninteresting windows and menus.

Yeah I did give it a try out for about a month and I still didn't like it. I needed no more time "to get used" to it. If it doesn't appeal to me after 4 weeks, it ain't gonna happen after 8 weeks. Or 15 weeks.

I don't try to tell anyone that Win 8 sucks, but what it is I don't like about it, not that it makes a difference why I don't like Win 8, Fords, Bleu Cheese, long walks on the beach, or anything else, my choice.

I'm not the type who will blindly follow anyone's recommendations without my own research/testing.

The preceding has been the opinion of the writer and does not represent the position of the management of Seven Forums or its sponsors.

You don't like Fords?! What's wrong with you, man?!