PC has been slower since last format

[senjougahara]

Why do you want all of these programs to start up with Windows? They become freeloaders on your RAM, CPU and Startup when they should wait to start up when you click on them.

It's always best for performance to run a Clean Boot.

If you must have these start up with Windows then add them back in msconfig>Startup, but realize you are going in the opposite direction from good performance.

But before formatting the penultimate time I had those programs to start up with Windows and I never had any problems, disabling them will make the start up faster yes but it will not fix that 'problem' that's making slow startup when the penultimate time I had the exact same programs (except from MSE) and my start up was fast

 

[gregrocker]

Your Startup and logs are clean so next step is to run the trace which the Pro's use to determine the cause of slow startup with certainty: Gathering a Startup, Shutdown, Sleep, Hibernate, or Reboot Trace - Windows 7 Forums

Cluberti can be PM'd to consult once you upload the trace file to a free server like MS Skydrive and link it here.

 

[senjougahara]

Should I do a boot , shutdown or reboot trace?

 

[gregrocker]

Whichever one is the problem.

 

[senjougahara]

Boot_Trace.rar There It is , I already sent the PM to Cluberti. I hope we can fix it

 

[cluberti]

According to the boot trace data, it only takes about 37 seconds to get from the initial kernel bootstrap to explorer.exe loaded - however, the "post-boot" phase takes almost 70 seconds (of the total boot time of 105 seconds). From what I can see during this time period, the following is happening:

1. Lpksetup.exe is running - why would the language pack installer be running, might I ask?
2. Steam.exe takes quite some time to start - I don't know if you can avoid Steam starting during logon (I don't personally have experience running Steam), but if you can avoid it starting up at logon, I would strongly recommend it.
3. The ATI CCC control panel is installed and running - unless you actually need the features that the control panel brings, uninstall that and the drivers *completely*, and reinstall just the latest driver pack only from ATI/AMD.
4. The Adobe Acrobat update service launches on startup - as with all startup items, unless you feel like you need it, use autoruns to make it stop running at logon and only run it when you need it.
5. You have installed Online Armor Firewall (xfire64.exe), and given we're troubleshooting "clean install" performance issues, this is a major sticking point for me (as would any filter driver be). Remove this until we're sure it isn't a part of the problem (and from what I see here, to go along with the other things I am aware from troubleshooting it the last few years, it very well may be).
6. Your ReadyBoot prefetch data is exhibiting higher-than-normal (at least in my experience) miss rates, which contributes to slowing disk I/O during boot.

Ultimately, Steam uses the most disk I/O during the boot/start process, and you have a *lot* of disk head movement due to disk fragmentation - couple that with other known performance-problem programs (ATI control panel, your firewall, and other startup items that happen during logon) and yes, what you are seeing is about what I'd expect, performance-wise, from your specs. My recommendation is to remove unnecessary startup items (anything and everything you don't absolutely need), remove the 3rd party firewall (Windows firewall should be sufficient, but if you really need a 3rd party firewall the one you chose would not be my first recommendation for performance reasons), clear out your prefetch data (delete all *.pf files from \Windows\Prefetch), and then run a full defrag pass on the drive. Once you've done that, reboot 5 times (yes, specifically 5 times) in order to rebuild your prefetch data, then run one more full defrag pass.

After that, see what you end up with.

 

[A Guy]

Great post cluberti

A Guy

 

[gregrocker]

Great post cluberti

A Guy

+1 It's always a pleasure to watch Carl at work. We are fortunate to have him here as he is probably the foremost expert on these issues in the world.

 

[A Guy]

Great post cluberti

A Guy

+1 It's always a pleasure to watch Carl at work. We are fortunate to have him here as he is probably the foremost expert on these issues in the world.

As I said in my Rep... "Poetry"

A Guy

 

[senjougahara]

According to the boot trace data, it only takes about 37 seconds to get from the initial kernel bootstrap to explorer.exe loaded - however, the "post-boot" phase takes almost 70 seconds (of the total boot time of 105 seconds). From what I can see during this time period, the following is happening:

1. Lpksetup.exe is running - why would the language pack installer be running, might I ask?
2. Steam.exe takes quite some time to start - I don't know if you can avoid Steam starting during logon (I don't personally have experience running Steam), but if you can avoid it starting up at logon, I would strongly recommend it.
3. The ATI CCC control panel is installed and running - unless you actually need the features that the control panel brings, uninstall that and the drivers *completely*, and reinstall just the latest driver pack only from ATI/AMD.
4. The Adobe Acrobat update service launches on startup - as with all startup items, unless you feel like you need it, use autoruns to make it stop running at logon and only run it when you need it.
5. You have installed Online Armor Firewall (xfire64.exe), and given we're troubleshooting "clean install" performance issues, this is a major sticking point for me (as would any filter driver be). Remove this until we're sure it isn't a part of the problem (and from what I see here, to go along with the other things I am aware from troubleshooting it the last few years, it very well may be).
6. Your ReadyBoot prefetch data is exhibiting higher-than-normal (at least in my experience) miss rates, which contributes to slowing disk I/O during boot.

Ultimately, Steam uses the most disk I/O during the boot/start process, and you have a *lot* of disk head movement due to disk fragmentation - couple that with other known performance-problem programs (ATI control panel, your firewall, and other startup items that happen during logon) and yes, what you are seeing is about what I'd expect, performance-wise, from your specs. My recommendation is to remove unnecessary startup items (anything and everything you don't absolutely need), remove the 3rd party firewall (Windows firewall should be sufficient, but if you really need a 3rd party firewall the one you chose would not be my first recommendation for performance reasons), clear out your prefetch data (delete all *.pf files from \Windows\Prefetch), and then run a full defrag pass on the drive. Once you've done that, reboot 5 times (yes, specifically 5 times) in order to rebuild your prefetch data, then run one more full defrag pass.

After that, see what you end up with.

Hello! First of all thanks a bunch for answering


1) I don't know with the Language Pack Installer is running, I installed the japanese language pack , is there a way to close it?

2) I never had a problem with Steam, I've set it to don't start at Startup but it's the same

3) I use the Composite Sync from the ATi Control Panel.


4) I'll try this and report back EDIT: Tried it, I think it works a little better now I disabled google updater and adobe acrobat



5) xfire64.exe is not a Firewall service but a game tracking software that allows you to chat (Xfire - Gaming Simplified) I never had problems with this one either.

6) Before formatting twice I had not this problem, and I had exactly the same programs, surely removing unnecessary items will make startup faster, but It won't fix my slow startup which I never had (and I used exactly the same programs I swear!)

 

[cluberti]

1) If you've installed a Japanese LPK, try removing it (and migrating back to English) to see if that has any effect (check for the existence of lpksetup.exe in the process list).
2) Again, no experience with Steam personally, but I do know that it's not exactly a performance enhancer .
3) Are you really running a monitor that doesn't merge sync and sync on green? If not, you don't really need this.
4) Good - again, anything you don't absolutely need running immediately at logon can be set to not start and thus will only run when you need them. This is a good idea no matter what, anyway, so good to do.
5) Yet you're having performance issues - please stop assuming because something worked fine before that it's also doing so now.
6) See #5

 

[A Guy]

1) If you've installed a Japanese LPK, try removing it (and migrating back to English) to see if that has any effect (check for the existence of lpksetup.exe in the process list).
2) Again, no experience with Steam personally, but I do know that it's not exactly a performance enhancer .
3) Are you really running a monitor that doesn't merge sync and sync on green? If not, you don't really need this.
4) Good - again, anything you don't absolutely need running immediately at logon can be set to not start and thus will only run when you need them. This is a good idea no matter what, anyway, so good to do.
5) Yet you're having performance issues - please stop assuming because something worked fine before that it's also doing so now.
6) See #5

That was what stood out for me in this as well. It may have been fine on another install, but it doesn't mean it is now. Why would be another question, but if it is the issue, it is whether it worked fine before or not. A Guy

 

[senjougahara]

1) If you've installed a Japanese LPK, try removing it (and migrating back to English) to see if that has any effect (check for the existence of lpksetup.exe in the process list).
2) Again, no experience with Steam personally, but I do know that it's not exactly a performance enhancer .
3) Are you really running a monitor that doesn't merge sync and sync on green? If not, you don't really need this.
4) Good - again, anything you don't absolutely need running immediately at logon can be set to not start and thus will only run when you need them. This is a good idea no matter what, anyway, so good to do.
5) Yet you're having performance issues - please stop assuming because something worked fine before that it's also doing so now.
6) See #5

1) Tried it, It's still the same I don't know if this is important but I always used English, I had it to practice from time to time xD

2) I know xD but I have it since Feb 2009 and I never ever had a performance problem caused by it, I'm sure it's not Steam

3) I don't know what's that , I just have it because if I don't enable it I start seeing weird lines in white and grey combination backgrounds (I made a thread for this and this was the only *sort of* solution)

4) Nice to know I'd just leave them to be off at startup

5 & 6) But I've formatted tons of times and used the same programs until now, I never had this problem before, just in the last 2 times I formatted. As gregrocker said, maybe it is something with the drivers?



@A guy I'd like to know why isn't start up working OK this time as well I hope I can find the solution and fix it soon

 

[gregrocker]

Did you try reinstalling or updating the display driver to solve the display issue? It shouldn't require running the Catalyst bloatware to solve this.

 

[cluberti]

I would suggest trying this - install Windows 7 with just your drivers (and for now, avoid the CCC control panel and just install ATI drivers) and all Windows Updates, and get a boot trace. Then, add what you absolutely need, and get a second trace. Compress them both and upload them, and we'll have a look and see before/after.

 

[senjougahara]

Did you try reinstalling or updating the display driver to solve the display issue? It shouldn't require running the Catalyst bloatware to solve this.

Tried it. Even if I uninstall catalyst control center it happens too

I would suggest trying this - install Windows 7 with just your drivers (and for now, avoid the CCC control panel and just install ATI drivers) and all Windows Updates, and get a boot trace. Then, add what you absolutely need, and get a second trace. Compress them both and upload them, and we'll have a look and see before/after.

So first Windows 7 with my drivers right? (is there a way to install ATi Drivers without CCC?) First Motherboard then GPU and then upgrade them with Windows Update? I'll have to back up and I'll try it and (since I'm really busy, and I mean REALLY, I'm sorry ) report back most likely tomorrow. I really apologize for not being able to do it today

 

[cluberti]

That's OK mate - take your time. It's not like the forum is going anywhere .

As to your question - yes. Install Windows 7 SP1, then install the ATI drivers without control panel (there's a download option on the ATI / AMD site where you get the driver bundle that will contain the drivers without the control panel, but you sometimes have to scroll down on the download page to find them), then any other hardware drivers you need. Once that's done (and your device manager shows all devices installed), run Windows Update and get all updates until there are no more when you check.

Then, reboot 5 times (yes, 5 times - it's specific for superfetch and readyboot), run defrag C: /u /v (assuming C: is the drive letter for Windows) from an elevated cmd prompt, run defrag c: /b from the same elevated cmd prompt when the previous defrag finishes, and then reboot once more. Install the Perf Toolkit and get a boot trace as before, and then tell us "how it feels", performance-wise, after all that (since you're busy, I'll not expect anything soon - I'll keep an eye on this thread).

Next, install your system as you always would, software and all, and once that's all done do the defrag steps as previously described above, reboot, and get another boot trace. Again, tell us "how it feels" after doing all of that as well.

 

[gregrocker]

We've been through all of this before. When I connected via remote I had turned off the Startup programs which apparently were turned right back on again. I explained CCC needed to come out, that it's bloatware which causes many problems. And I've explained that he needs to use the drivers given by the installer and quickly updated via optional Windows Updates for awhile to check performance, before changing them out to manufacturer's drivers.

Win7 is driver-complete and the authority on its own drivers. This is not XP. Only change out drivers which are causing performance issues.

Changing out drivers given by the installer and updated via optional Windows Updates is a big cause of performance issues.

 

[senjougahara]

That's OK mate - take your time. It's not like the forum is going anywhere .

As to your question - yes. Install Windows 7 SP1, then install the ATI drivers without control panel (there's a download option on the ATI / AMD site where you get the driver bundle that will contain the drivers without the control panel, but you sometimes have to scroll down on the download page to find them), then any other hardware drivers you need. Once that's done (and your device manager shows all devices installed), run Windows Update and get all updates until there are no more when you check.

Then, reboot 5 times (yes, 5 times - it's specific for superfetch and readyboot), run defrag C: /u /v (assuming C: is the drive letter for Windows) from an elevated cmd prompt, run defrag c: /b from the same elevated cmd prompt when the previous defrag finishes, and then reboot once more. Install the Perf Toolkit and get a boot trace as before, and then tell us "how it feels", performance-wise, after all that (since you're busy, I'll not expect anything soon - I'll keep an eye on this thread).

Next, install your system as you always would, software and all, and once that's all done do the defrag steps as previously described above, reboot, and get another boot trace. Again, tell us "how it feels" after doing all of that as well.

Ahh so I download them , no need to use my CD right?
what are those commands for? I only have one Hard disk drive with no partitions (I don't know if that's what you mean)

We've been through all of this before. When I connected via remote I had turned off the Startup programs which apparently were turned right back on again. I explained CCC needed to come out, that it's bloatware which causes many problems. And I've explained that he needs to use the drivers given by the installer and quickly updated via optional Windows Updates for awhile to check performance, before changing them out to manufacturer's drivers.

Win7 is driver-complete and the authority on its own drivers. This is not XP. Only change out drivers which are causing performance issues.

Changing out drivers given by the installer and updated via optional Windows Updates is a big cause of performance issues.

Let me get this clear. I have to install drivers from my CDs first and then download windows 7 drivers from Windows Update, right? You guys are contradicting yourselves xD

 

[cluberti]

what are those commands for? I only have one Hard disk drive with no partitions (I don't know if that's what you mean)

Those commands will (first) defragment the hard disk using specific options, and then (second) do a "boot optimization" defrag pass, which specifically looks to affect the areas of disk that are impacted during boot.

Let me get this clear. I have to install drivers from my CDs first and then download windows 7 drivers from Windows Update, right? You guys are contradicting yourselves xD

Well, not really, but it can be somewhat confusing the first few times you have to get your hands dirty like this. Ultimately, what I think we're all trying to convey is that if you can get away with NOT installing any drivers off of the CD that shipped with the PC, do so. If you absolutely need the network drivers before you can access the internet from a clean Win7 install, then that's OK, but it would be better to start absolutely clean and use only download/install updated drivers from the vendor's websites directly, and the drivers on the CD should be avoided for this test at all costs.


Make sense?