Solved Seeking Advice on Windows 7 Ultimate Install, keep or dump it?

[AndyF]

Hello,

I will ask that you pardon me in advance, but I have an odd problem and it might take a longer post to describe the situation.

I have two identical Dell XPS410 Dimension computers. These have the same BIOS (updated), Motherboard, and external devices with the exception that the second of these machines has 2 CD/DVD drives and one of those multi-floppy disks, where the first one has just 1 CD/DVD drive.

Both of these machines ran Vista for a couple years, and they ran fine. Then I decided to update the machines to Windows 7. I bought real copies, one of Windows 7 Enterprise, and one of Windows 7 Ultimate.

I did the Windows 7 Enterprise install first - I did both installs CLEAN, not an upgrade. This first install went pretty well. All devices were found and software went well too with the only complaint that I bought Office 2010 and I hate it - but overall the first install (of Win 7 Enterprise) had no real hiccups.

I then undertook the Windows 7 Ultimate install on the second machine (2 CD/DVD drives and that multi-floppy drive). What a disaster this has been - in fact, its been two weeks now and I still cannot get Windows to "see" the multi-floppy at all, and both CD/DVD drives seem to work now and then (more then, than now...)

I have been up and down the support chain including talking to Microsoft who, to my utter shock, seem to know the least about the very product they make. The MS tech had me update some firmware in the CD\DVD drives, go in and out of the BIOS (which he said seemed correctly set), and run both Computer and Device Manager over and over and over again. After all of it, nada, zilch, nothing - in other words nothing he did, or any of the web help I have found, has solved the problem.

Indeed, I think I have done 50-100 Google searches and tried every solution from modifying the registry, to various hardware tweaks. Nothing seems to work - I still have never seen the multi-floppy, and the CD/DVD drives come and go and of course, when they work, they read 1 or 2 discs and then 'go away' again.

So I need to choose a course of action and though I am not a novice, I am no expert either and thus would appreciate any advice. My question is basically...

Should I...

- Go back to Vista on this second machine. At least you knew it worked.
- By another copy of Enterprise NOT Ultimate (dont know what the difference might be...) ((...and will this really solve things, or is it hardware based?))
- Find a REAL solution. (No offense to the web posters, but really its just a ton of suggestions that some work for some, none have for me...)

Any further advice would be MOST appreciated. I am just so tired of reformatting this machine and starting over again always hitting the same wall in the end.

Thanks very much!

 

[Ztruker]

What is the make and model number of this Multi-floppy thingy?

I've never heard of one. Does it have A Windows 7 driver?

 

[AddRAM]

Why did you buy Enterprise ?

I don`t think installing enterprise on the 2nd machine will fix anything as it and ultimate are basically the same. Your problems is a driver issue. If there was a driver for Vista then there "should be" a driver for 7.
Check all your connections on the drives.

And, you don`t have to buy another Enterprise to test it on the 2nd machine.

 

[AndyF]

ZTrucker - I did some research and the device I am talking about is called a "Media Card Reader". Its part number is GH493, but that is the Dell part number - I could not determine much more beyond that as the itemized list of it on my receipt says just that. Sorry about the "floppy disk thingy" reference but I could not recall what the darn thing was called.

AddRAM - I take your advice that Enterprise might not be the path to pursue, however a couple problems with your advice - #1 "If it has a Vista driver, it will have a Win7 driver". This just is not true. For example, I am a musician and powered my studio for many years with Creative Labs stuff - they didnt release any Win7 drivers for more than a year. And this is one example - I have many where both hardware and software makers had no Win7 drivers/versions. This is indeed part of my problem - seems like many companies did not get out front on Win7, let alone Vista. #2, as for checking cables, etc etc - these machines have not moved in years. They are in a cabinet I had made that has both front and back access, so I am very leary to start looking at hardware when both machines ran fine with Vista for years, and its only going to Win7 on the second machine that has become a nightmare - I really dont think this is any cable connection or anything like that.

To you both, I deeply appreciate the advice and dont take an response as an assault - I do not intend anything that way - its just that I have been wrestling with this for weeks and want to proceed through to a fix (or just give up) in some sort of orderly fashion. I suppose if it gets down to opening up hardware and checking at that level, I may just buy another machine with someone else setting it up - hate to do that, but who knows. For now, I cant stand having a big expensive paperweight.

Might I also ask an additional question... I go way back with computers to the days when a "big" hard drive was 1 MB. Yup, that old. But what I dont understand is whatever happened to "Plug and Play"? Why am I hunting for drivers? Did Microsoft suddenly decide NOT to distribute drivers with these Win7 OS's??? It appears not - and this is where I am told many companies just were not ready with them when MS wanted to do its release candidate for Win7. Baffles me... Like one step forward, and 10 back... but I have been doing that dance with MS for years. Just wish it would end!!!

Thanks guys.

 

[Layback Bear]

Windows 7 comes with loads of drivers but not all as you have found out. I have a couple or so questions. Pretty basic but worth a try.
Have you ran this?
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/10956-windows-7-upgrade-advisor.html
Where did you get your DVD's of Windows 7 Ultimate and Enterprise form?
Are these upgrades from Vista or clean installs?
They are basic questions but a starting place never the less.

 

[AddRAM]

I nevet said IT WILL HAVE a driver, I said there " SHOULD BE ", a driver. Not the same thing.

A lot of times when you find a driver for 7 x64 it will be a Vista x64 driver. And that`s the driver you would use and it " SHOULD " not WILL work.

So..... instead of hunting for a 7 driver you hunt for and use a Vista driver.

 

[Ztruker]

I'm wondering if on the 2nd machine, an upgrade rather than a Clean Install might make a difference, since you already had a fully working system, including the Media Card Reader.

Also, open Device Manager, locate the entry for your Media Card Reader (may have to click on View / Show hidden devices). Double click on it then click on the Details page. Select Hardware Ids in the drop down. Click on the line that ends with the &SUBSYS)nnnn... then press Ctrl+C to copy it, looks something like this:

PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_266E&SUBSYS_01751028 (this is for my SoundMax audio)

Paste that into a Google search and see if it give you any useful info.

Since the Media Card Reader is fed from the system board, you could also try looking for Windows 7 drivers for the system board itself.

Lastly (or maybe firstly), try the Vista X64 driver, see if it works.

Drivers and Downloads | Dell [United States]

 

[Layback Bear]

I agree AddRam many Vista drivers will work with Windows 7. Sometimes with older hardware Vista drivers is the only choice one has. It's kind of a hunt and peck system until one finds one that will work.

 

[AddRAM]

Here`s a prime example, notice how it says compatible for 7 but the driver was actually made for Vista.

 

[Sardonicus]

I'm wondering if on the 2nd machine, an upgrade rather than a Clean Install might make a difference, since you already had a fully working system, including the Media Card Reader.

Also, open Device Manager, locate the entry for your Media Card Reader (may have to click on View / Show hidden devices). Double click on it then click on the Details page. Select Hardware Ids in the drop down. Click on the line that ends with the &SUBSYS)nnnn... then press Ctrl+C to copy it, looks something like this:

PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_266E&SUBSYS_01751028 (this is for my SoundMax audio)

Paste that into a Google search and see if it give you any useful info.

Since the Media Card Reader is fed from the system board, you could also try looking for Windows 7 drivers for the system board itself.

Lastly (or maybe firstly), try the Vista X64 driver, see if it works.

Drivers and Downloads | Dell [United States]

View attachment 243550

If you find your Vista driver and it doesn't work, try running it in the Compatibility mode.
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/316-compatibility-mode.html

 

[AndyF]

Hi guys...

I will try to answer all questions here, but some of the advice you have posted since last night correlates to some advice I got from one of our company developers today. More on that in a moment...

AddRAM - Point taken. I suppose I am soured by my experience with the very high sound boards I use from Creative Labs. First, they had no Vista driver for them, then when I went to Win 7 on the first machine, they had no Win 7 driver and said "Use the Vista driver" and it didnt work - at all. Then about a month later, they came out with a Win 7 driver and I am happy to report there that it works well. But as I say, point taken - "suppose" to be a driver, got it.

As to your question "Why did you buy Enterprise?" (as well as Ultimate). I work for an MS Gold Partner and I got both copies at about 15% of normal cost - so I took them and figured, hey what the heck...

Layback Bear - As said, I work for a Microsoft Gold Partner so instead of using any text or MS based "Compatibility Manager" we have specialized software that checks a machine for compatibility. Both machines PASSED with flying colors. I have since reported to the software maker the problems I am having. So all in all, I (thought) I did my homework before diving into this conversion. As for your other queries - Yes, this is a CLEAN install thus far. Thats all I have done - no upgrades, but...

(To you all) - I got sent a link to yet another web site today that suggests the way to approach this is to Upgrade and NOT clean install. That is, my second machine's configuration has not changed (except increasing RAM to 4GB) since I bought it, and it ran Vista (32) fine for a few years, so if the devices worked then, run the upgrade and they will either update, or not.

I can reinstall Vista and go the upgrade path, so I am thinking seriously that this weekend I will undertake that project. Anyone have any reason to suggest that this is NOT the best idea I have so far? Many of you have commented that way, and to that I say thanks, but also take it as a further endorsement of that method.

Once again, thanks to you all.

 

[Layback Bear]

My question were not intended to imply you didn't do your homework. They were just to gather information so if possible I/WE could help you if possible.
Have a nice day.

 

[AndyF]

*** UPDATE ***

I thought I should post this ASAP... I just got finished reformatting the hard drives and installing Vista 32 Ultimate (my original OS) and OMG! Just installing that, (No drivers or other installs) I can see ALL the drives on this machine! I see the 2 internal hard drives, the 1 external hard drive, my A: drive (an older 1.44 floppy) and the afore missing Media Card Reader! I see them all... Go figure?!?

I dont know if I will have further time this evening to do the Win 7 Ultimate Upgrade, but I am kind of all at once pleased that all my devices are there, and yet baffled why a clean Win 7 Ultimate install did not show them. I would have thought (maybe Im nuts) that Microsoft would at least include the drivers they did on Vista.

Either way, this IS further along than I have been in weeks. I will throw up another post after I give the Win 7 Ultimate Upgrade a shot. Its horrible in a way to say it, but at least I know Vista Ultimate works and if I have to, will go back to it.

Seems like you guys have me on the right track, squeeze Vista to get to Win 7 and avoid a clean install. That said, I DID do a clean install on my first machine, but that has just a floppy drive and one CD/DVD - not these other devices.

Will drop a post back up and report how the Upgrade went when I get to it.

Thank you all.

 

[AddRAM]

Well I`m glad you`re up and running. Just my opinion, but why not just leave Vista on it.

 

[AndyF]

Hi Guys...

I am in the midst of reloading all my software in Vista and then I will try the Win 7 upgrade. A couple dedicated replies...

LaybackBear - Oh please, no no... I did not take your good advice as any implication - I am sorry if it came off that way... The reason I mentioned the compatibility software was that most average users do not have access to this kind of software. I did not mean that as any negative impression that I had not done homework. I cant divulge everything here, but this is software not available to the public - I had access cause we work with these guys. Sorry, I meant no slight to you at all...

AddRAM - You gave me darn good advice and I deeply appreciate it. Why not stay with Vista? Well, at least now I know that if all else fails, I can. I am going to go the Win 7 Upgrade route, but if it is not "where I was" (know what I mean?) with Vista - I will go back to Vista. And thanks for the post of the screen shot too. As said, I think I really got burned on the Creative Labs debacle I went through about a year ago and that soured me to ALL Vista/Win 7 updates. I think I just kind of presumed the two were very different - but now I see, in some cases yes, in others no.

Sardonicus - Thanks for your advice too. I really would like to avoid Compatibility mode, but I cant tell you that my reasoning there is solid and I can see from your input that that might be another thing not to be so stoned cold set on. Your input is much appreciated.

Right now I am reloading all important software on Vista, and then will try to the Win 7 upgrade. My presumption (please comment if you think I am screwing myself yet again) is that get it loaded on the Vista side, and then worry about the Win 7 side (or not?) when you do the upgrade.

I will be another day or two getting this all taken care of to a point where I can try the update. Let me just comment though that you guys are MOST helpful. Not since I joined VistaHeads have I seen a site where users have good suggestions and clear experience. I deeply appreciate the help and owe you all a beer, or whatever your favorite embibement might be.

I will keep you post as I go along. I feel at the least, my experiences might help some other moron like myself!!!

Thanks guys.

 

[AndyF]

Guys...

I forgot to ask a question that I wanted to ask purely for your opinions...

On my first machine (the clean install of Win 7 Enterprise) that went well, I upgraded from Vista Home to Win 7 Enterprise. On this second machine I am going from Vista Ultimate to Win 7 Utlimate, so at least this, at this poiint does not seem a concern to me...

But the question is this... Suppose I went from say Vista Ultimate to Win 7 Home Premium - does the "flavor" of the the OS (eg, Ultimate, Home, etc.) make a difference? Do you lose features and capabilities if you do such an "upgrade" which to me seems sort of an "upgrade/downgrade"?

I ask this because my sister has a very fancy Dell machine and wants to go from Vista Premium to Win 7 Home Edition... But she is waiting to see what happens with my upgrade - the brother "who knows" computers... Yeah, right... I dont know computers as much as I am stupid enough to keep trying to do these things myself!

Thanks...

 

[AndyF]

*** PROGRESS UPDATE ***

I thought it might be useful to post a progress update. I am still trying to complete the install of Vista Ultimate with one problem kind of holding me up. (I am just installing driver based stuff - no apps or anything...)

My first CD/DVD drive is a TSST Corp H493A drive. I cannot seem to locate any driver for this. Dell gives you a driver disk, and I have that, but its not the same model number on any of them. My second CD/DVD drive which is a TSST Corp H653B drive had an update and that ran fine, and the drive is behaving perfectly. But the first drive is there all the time, but only reads CD (or DVDs) occasionally. I may have to contact Dell for help on this one as clearly, they gave me the wrong driver, and when you go to the web to find it, all you hit are those horrible driver support apps that download lots of ads and garbage.

As I load each driver piece, things are going well, but it kind of baffles me that with Enterprise on my first machine, I didnt have to do any of this low level tweak stuff. The second machine has the additional CD/DVD and the Media Card reader, but are those two things any source of headaches? Who knows. Funny too because when I updated the TEAC Media Card reader, that was a breeze...

I will post again when I get deeper into doing the Upgrade to Win 7 and let you know how it goes. But, I remain stunned that so many decades into PCs, I still have to be tweaking things this much, at this level. (OK, nice whine, pass the cheese please...)

 

[AddRAM]

Don`t know why you have to find drivers for your cd/dvd players. I`ve never had to do that, ever. Have you run windows update ?

Are these drives showing problems in device manager ?

 

[AndyF]

Hi AddRAM...

The CD/DVD drives show okay in Device Manager - no exclamation icons or anything - and yes, I ran Windows Update a number of times and it does nothing for these units. The problematic CD/DVD drive comes and goes (this is the problem) - that is, you put a CD in it and it reads it nicely, but then, the next CD you put in it seems to think the drive is empty and you get that "Please insert CD" dialog. When you look at the driver on this one, its the generic driver NOT any dedicated driver. The second CD/DVD drive works fine and shows the driver for the TSST H653A unit which I loaded from my "Dell drivers" disk. It also asked me to update the firmware on that second drive, which I did, and as I say, that drive works perfectly everytime. The first drive does not - it only reads 1 or 2 CD's (or DVDs) before I have to reboot to make it work again.

I too have never dealt with this before, but as I mentioned in the earlier post, the Dell Drivers CD has the wrong driver for this problem unit, so I am searching the web for it, and also shooting an email off to Dell to try to get it. Everything else is loaded fine and running in Vista - so if I get this driver, I am ready to try the Win 7 Upgrade.

The only clue I have on this one was a post up on Dell saying that going to Vista / Win 7, firmware may need to be updated on CD/DVD drives. It didnt specify models or anything like that. And of course, to add to this mystery, this drive ran on Vista Ultimate just fine for years. Go figure.

Will keep you posted.

 

[AndyF]

*** ALMOST FINAL UPDATE ***

Well, its done, or as we say, "dun". That is, I have now finished (or "phinished") the upgrade from Vista Ultimate to Win 7 Ultimate. It took a week and there remain some challenges (and thats why I say "dun" and "phinished").

The Upgrade path turned out to be quite a bit of work because you must have SP1 and SP2 installed on the Vista end to really make the Win 7 Upgrade go. Microsoft says you must "at least" have SP1, but I am now convinced that the people who know the LEAST about Windows 7 is Microsoft (go figure...), and each time I had just SP1 on, it didnt work very well. Put 1 and 2 on, no problem. That ate up about three nights work.

The Media Card Reader is installed and appears in Device Manager with no problems, but it will not show up in Explorer. Got advice today that that is a settings thing so I am still searching for what setting.

The CD/DVD drive that gave me problems continues to do so. It also shows up fine in Device Manager, no problems, but still only reads 1 CD or DVD and then craps out. I am told by Dell that I need a firmware update (which I did on the second drive and is working perfectly everytime) but this model TS-H493A is not to be found and on my Dell packing list, a different model # is shown, and that too has no firmware. So I am still waiting to hear from Dell support to figure that one out.

I have the usual permissions things to resolve on my network and then a bit of application software to install, but all in all for all I have been through, to get this far is a mere miracle. Of course, as I say everytime, I am NEVER doing this again - I will just buy a new machine instead. (but all Dells are coming with Win 8 and I wont touch that for quite a while).

I would like once again to extend my thanks to all who replied here. You REALLY did make a difference and I will talk up this site, and your handles to anyone venturing into this kind of thing - many many thanks - but still kind of funny in a way that I got the most effective support from other users. Too bad you guys dont service cars...

Again, thanks for all the help and advice. I wish you all the best.