Should I defragment my (18% fragmented) SSD?

[Hopalong X]

+1 thank god i came across this page. I just build a new computer with SSD and normal HD and thought i was being on top of my maintenance by defrg them every week.

If I owned the SSD company they would have a big warning label glued to the SSD case.

WARNING: Do not Defragment this Unit.
Will void warranty.

I would even provide a link to instructions on manufacturer's SSD web site just for disabling defrag.
Or a link to seven forums.
Include XP thru W7.

I'm glad so many are reading this and getting the info here.
We thank you.
Mike

 

[Mr Bass]

No wonder the web is full of tales of woe about SSD.

Hi, Yip there is a lot of misinformation about this newish technology.

The Solid State Drive.

For example my Samsung 470 Series came with its own Optimizer software.

After much debate from the more experienced Sevenforum members they have advised me not to use this as it is a defragger.

The SSD controller places the files where it thinks it is best suited for the most used applications and if I understand this correctly it does not have to work in a conventional lined up way like a spinny disk works... they drop data all over the place and so over time the files are in so many parts (fragments) that it takes ages for the mechanical device to find them all.. hence they are over fragmented.

This in turn makes for slow performance and bad sectors etc... afterall it is mechanical and like all mechanical devices they can and do wear out.

The HD is spinning around mighty quick for all those hours, days, years. No wonder they go bang.. I have had a few literary blow up.

Perhaps the senior members could make a special page of new post for new users of this technology that is easier for newbie users of SSD like myself. I had to read through a posting from 2010. Then I was super confused, but was told the most important things,

Make sure TRIM is active.
Double check defragment feature is turned off yourself.
Turn off hibernate...
Make sure your partitions are lined up if you have cloned your Operating System from your main c drive.

I don't know about what pagefile size you should have.... I suspect there will be another posting in this thread telling me to have one a certain size. (please do post with advise)

Again there is no clear information for us new users of this technology, I have used a computer since the days of the Atari ST in music studios. So the old technology is part of my computing blood.. its what we have used since the days of tape and blooming floppy!

 

[sygnus21]

One of the issues for so much bad info is the first generation SSD drives had issues and needed to be tweaked, plus a lot of people were using them on XP, so a lot of info is from those days.

With Windows 7, and the newer drives, a lot of those old tweaks and stuff doesn't apply to the newer tech, and can actually hinder performance. There's also certain benchmarking tools you want to be careful with as I posted here - http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/18229-show-us-your-ssd-performance-100.html#post1166247

Anyway you're always going to get that person that says "I've been using this tweak since the abacus days and never had a problem" so....

Just remember: Windows 7 isn't XP, and an SSD drive isn't a mechanical drive

 

[essenbe]

Mr. Bass, I am not at all familar with the Samsung optimizer. I do know that some manufacturers come out with their own 'tool boxes'. I am reasonably sure that Samsung would not defrag it's own drives. Intel has a tool box that I use, to an extent. It always wants to turn off Superfetch, which I do not do. But, they can also help update firmware or do a secure erase if necessary. In some respects they can be quite useful. See if you can find a Samsung SSD forum. Most manufacturers have them. Much info can be found there. Some good and some not so good. As far as page file, I'm not quite sure what to tell you. Some turn it off, some let windows decide and some, like me, use a custom size. With 8GB of ram you will rarely use the pagefile . I set mine as a custom size of a minimum of 1GB and a Max of 2GB. Some will say that is not enough and some will say it is too much. I have never seen my pagefile being used more than around 10%, and I monitor it. You will get a lot of differing info on how to optimize the SSD. Just try to understand what each thing does and whether you need it. As far as defragging: as previously stated, never defrag an SSD. Defrag is meant for spinning hard drives and the way they operate. Defrag will almost always say an SSD is defragmented. That is because they are made for spinners and SSDs work completely different. If your alignment is correct and trim is enabled, your SSD will be OK. SSDs write in blocks, spinners don't. Because they write in blocks is the reason alignment is so important. All of the optimizations I do, I have already told you. I turn off defrag, make sure the alignment is correct, make sure trim is enabled and turn off the hiberfile. That is all I do. many worry about writes to the SSD. They are not nearly as fragile as you may have heard. I am not at all concerned about that. The SSDs I have will last beyond my lifetime. Some of the decisions you will have to make yourself because there are so many differing opinions. There are not many hard and fast rules of what you do and don't do. The only definate rules I can think of right now is no defrag, make sure of trim and alignment, and turn off hiberfile to save space.I do as few optimizations as possible.

 

[sygnus21]

If the manufacture ships or says a piece of software is OK with their drives than that shouldn't be an issue. Just follow the instructions.

 

[Hopalong X]

This is a good general guide.> http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/149969-ssd-install-transfer-operating-system.html

A very good starting read before installation of the SSD.
Good general informational tutorial with links to additional info.
It addresses many of the tweaks, pros, cons and myths.

It is for using an image not an install from Windows 7 disc but you may use an image the second time round so a definite plus to read.

 

[whs]

There is far too much myth surrounding SSDs. Here is my take:

1. Do not be afraid to read/write to the SSD. The thing is much sturdier than some people make you believe. An SSD will last a lot longer than you care to keep it.

2. If you install Windows7 from an installation disk, there is really nothing you need to do. The installer makes all the settings. Optionally you may move your user files to the HDD (if you are on a desktop) and get rid of the hiberfile if you want to save some space (to the tune of the size of your RAM). But that is all.

3. If you transfer your OS from a HDD to the SSD, use the Paragon Migration Tool. It may be well worth the $19.95 for someone that does that the first time. It does all the settings like the Win7 installer.

4. If you want to move the OS from a HDD to the SSD with an image, refer to my tutorial that Hopalong linked above. There are a few things you have to manage yourself - especially alignment and turning off defrag.

5. Stay away from all those "wonder tweaks" that you read on the web. Things like moving the pagefile to the HDD or shutting off Superfetch are at best counterproductive.

6. Do not go on those specialized forums like the OCZ forum. These guys will only confuse you and possibly get you into trouble. Some of these guys are real experts that you will most likely not be able to follow. And a lot of them are just bit fiddlers with no practical objectives.

 

[Mr Bass]

ALL is good.

Yip.. is all clear now. NEVER DEFAG A SSD.

My system is working like a chimp... The Software from Samsung is designed for XP users to get rid of garbage etc... The SSD has TRIM.

Win 7 has detected the new SSD and kicked TRIM in. I have double checked. So all is good. All tweaks done... hiberfile is OFF!

I have 40.6 GB free from 59.6 GB. I have my stripped down Win 7 home premium 64 bit working so .. so well. All my music software and synths etc. Remember this is a custom build for music production nothing else. No web, no games. Just lovely music production. Its lovely.

My other machines are XP with spinners, they too work well in the studio... but this new build is much sexier.

 

[whs]

Mr. Bass, I can feel your excitement. I am glad you are happy.

 

[Mr Bass]

Come to daddy..

Yes WHS... my friend.

I'm not exactly a spring chicken. I have used computers for music production for twenty odd years.

This little Asus with a stripped down o.s a SSD and loads of RAM is profound.

I love Windows 7 64 bit its fantastic.

With a few tweaks is even better.. unfortunately us music producers mainly use Macs as there are not many conflicts with the music software it really is just plug and play.

I'm not going to slate them, its immature and out of place, but they are just for metrosexuals.

But I don't like them as it is a closed system.. I like to get under the bonnet and have a fiddle to see whats going on. Whoops sorry for the sexual innuendo... lol

 

[whs]

LOL - I did not even know the word " metrosexuals ". Had to look it up on Wikipedia.

But for the rest I understand your logic. I would never buy any Apple product - would not like to live on an island with the island tzar telling me what I can do and what not.

But one has to admire their business strategies - especially in iPad and iPhone. They set this up in a very smart way.

 

[Mr Bass]

True whs,

Macs are used a lot in High End music studios... very expensive products indeed.

The iPhone and iPad.

Wonderful marketing and very good industrial design. Remember Apple did also very well with iTunes it really got the digital consumer revolution well underway.

But well, quality control is not what it used to be. Many new macs suffer from poor build and well its expensive to replace every year due to heavy djing use. My Asus cost in total 743 Euros .. this included 4 gigs extra ram and a 64 GB SSD ... with a few tweaks is better that the Mac book Pro 13 inch which is about 1,400 Euro... for similar specs.

And they are really common in DJ booths around Berlin..lol I like to be different... or is It my lady spends the extra money on boots and shoes..lol I dunno.

Microsoft did well with Windows 7.. and if you shop around and do your homework you can get a really good machine for a fraction of the cost of a Mac.

 

[whs]

I know the shoe story. I had to make room for 400 pairs. Unbelievable what the girls can invest in shoes. Once I had to make a 900KM round trip into France (with an overnight stay) for a pair of shoes.

 

[Mr Bass]

WTF!

I love my Lady to bits... but she is also shoe and boot crazy.. oh and hats and belts. Every week its a new pair AND It all has to colour matched TO HER other stuff! Mind you She looks very classy indeed her own distinctive style...

I wouldn't have it any other way .. but we both joke about her obsessiveness.

I'm an ex Metosexual I have 14 pairs of trainers all immaculate, but I dropped the Mac habit years ago... I'm clean now... I went to Betty Fords Clinic for six months to stop the random urge to by a iPad and the Steve Jobs book!

So we both have our weirdness.. lol

 

[brotman]

Okay,
So the rule is never defrag your SSD. However when running the Windos (performance) experience rating I get a message
Saying that my disk speed rating is 5.9 (same as before I added the SSD and move windows to it. The message continues, saying The performance might be better but the test could not be run because it requiers 1GB of contiguous storage. How do I arrange that? (I have 88gb empty onb the drive) or do I even need to???

Thanks, Chuck

 

[essenbe]

brotman, this is a very old thread and you may be better served starting your own thread. The answer is never, under any circumstances defrag an SSD. When you start your own thread, please post a screenshot
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/9733-screenshots-files-upload-post-seven-forums.html of Disk Management. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/274797-disk-management-post-screen-capture-image.html

 

[brotman]

tHANKS FOR THE TIP! I've created a seperate thread in performance