Wat update - yes/no?

[Darryl Licht]

I have nothing on automatic update. I manually update my anti-virus/anti-malware programs, my firewall as well as my O/S. I pick and choose which Windows updates I download and install.

I have too many things to remember to do these days... updating apps and my OS are, and have been, automated for several years. One less thing for my aging cranium to remember!

Unlike Darryl, I do not trust Microsoft, Adobe, Apple, General Motors, Toyota, etc; but not because they are inherently evil. It is because they are made up of people and people are fallible and the corporate agenda may not match my agenda. I do not distrust them either. I simply want to make up my own mind about how I operate my computer and to control what comes in and goes out of it.

But you trust them enough to run their OS, AV, and apps... ???
Seems somewhat contradictory to me.... but i do have a drinking problem!
LOL!:roflmao:

 

[win7clutz]

.... but i do have a drinking problem!
LOL!:roflmao:

Funny sh!t... Do we need a buzzzzed / not buzzzzed login? (d)

 

[Barman58]

There is software available that requires you to perform mathematical and other problem solving questions before it will allow you to log-in to the likes of Facebook, when drunk, and thus stopping you posting embarrassing things, Perhaps we should consider this as a service to members.

But back on topic

What I actually find sad with this sort of thing is that the target singled out for criticism, is misplaced. The only reason Microsoft, or any other software developer, incorporates license checks, into their product is because of the pirates, who steal software, It's the same with DRM. I come from Industry where software licences are often enforced by physical, license keys, if the dongle is not present it does not work, period, this form of license security is not often bypassed, even though the software licence could be worth many thousands of dollars.

The price of software is set at that which can be recovered from the customer, it is the same with any product, It will include a proportion of the cost of the software that is due to piracy, either the lost income from pirated copies or the development and enforcement cost of anti-piracy measures.

I do believe that regional pricing from the software suppliers would do a lot to curb piracy levels. In developed markets such as the US and Europe the piracy level is lower that those markets where the generally flat rate pricing of software, across international boundaries, means that the software can cost more than a months wage.

The basic point of this overly long post is if you want to lower the price of software and remove the phoning home that is now becoming more common, purchase legitimate software and support the anti piracy measures, which are a necessary evil

Just my personal opinion of course

 

[Tews]

Well said Nigel!!

 

[Kari]

Kari-

There could be a good argument made that you can build a decent "work at home box" using Neweeg parts for 'bout $300.00. (Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz, 2 Gig Ram, 250Gig Hardrive, DVD burner, etc.). Then add a $100.00+ for the OS and it seems to me that 25% of the total system cost being the OS seems pretty steep.

Maybe a little more reasonable pricing from MS would go a long way in preventing piracy. Although if the OS was $10.00, there would still be folks trying to steal it just because they can. I'm not trying to justify piracy because of retail pricing, nor do I believe that MS should be a non-profit organization. Just thinking that a little more fairness in pricing would go a long way in controlling the problem.

Once again, a difference in opinions.

In my opinion, OS is the single most important and essential part of any computer. You can set up a rig costing a couple of thousands, all components state of the art, but wrong OS (too old or not compatible with your software etc. ) can ruin your computing experience. The rig is simply not living up to it's standards.

With todays component prices you can set up a fine rig with quite a little of money, that's true. But the principle remains: OS is the single most important component in your system. Personally, if I had very little money I would start making a rig by buying an OS i want and/or need. Then I'd start with basic components to assemble the rig itself, upgrading hardware components one by one when I got some more money to invest.

There is software available that requires you to perform mathematical and other problem solving questions before it will allow you to log-in to the likes of Facebook, when drunk, and thus stopping you posting embarrassing things, Perhaps we should consider this as a service to members.

What? So I should only post Monday mornings?

The basic point of this overly long post is if you want to lower the price of software and remove the phoning home that is now becoming more common, purchase legitimate software and support the anti piracy measures, which are a necessary evil

Just my personal opinion of course

You are an artist with words, my friend. That's about as well said as it is possible.

To those interested, check out the BSA (Business Software Alliance) anti-piracy site. Available in several languages and localized versions.

Kari

 

[RST101]

The who's right who's wrong conundrum continues.

Stay tuned for another episode.

 

[Darryl Licht]

WOW! This is a heated topic!

I cant believe how quickly this thread grew!

The basic point of this overly long post is if you want to lower the price of software and remove the phoning home that is now becoming more common, purchase legitimate software and support the anti piracy measures, which are a necessary evil

Just my personal opinion of course

I couldnt agree more Barman! I also think MS will eventually find a way to lock down their OS's, stop piracy, and thus lower prices.


To all the MS H8rs:

Why does it always have to boil down to Bill Gates stole or borrowed from Apple... so I steal from MS...???
OR
#2 argument: Gates is the richest man alive... he doesnt need anymore money...??? Both are lame/baseless/illogical arguments.

And if you still want to claim that Gates stole from MS, research Steve Wozniak's statements on this... he says:

"We needed MS to write an app for our new PC, we gave MS a sample machine with our GUI OS on it to use. Clearly when you compared DOS to our GUI, you knew where the future of computing lay. I dont think you can call that stealing, it's just being opportunistic"

Additionally, MS H8rs... If you think MS pricing is bad, try buying Adobe CS4 or (soon) CS5! At least MS has deals and programs directed at students/others that actually save them massive quantities of weekend beer money. Adobe's student discount program is a joke, with negligible savings!

MS also has other programs such as their MSDNAA (Academic Alliance) where students can get FREE copies of many, many MS titles. This program is usually reserved for CIS or technical students, but a fantastic program.

Other than free "open sores" software, who else has deals like these to assist cash starved students?

Microsoft is great! If you dont like Microsoft leave them! Just try playing (insert your favorite game here) on a Linux system!

LOL!

 

[CarlTR6]

What I actually find sad with this sort of thing is that the target singled out for criticism, is misplaced. The only reason Microsoft, or any other software developer, incorporates license checks, into their product is because of the pirates, who steal software, It's the same with DRM. I come from Industry where software licences are often enforced by physical, license keys, if the dongle is not present it does not work, period, this form of license security is not often bypassed, even though the software licence could be worth many thousands of dollars.

The price of software is set at that which can be recovered from the customer, it is the same with any product, It will include a proportion of the cost of the software that is due to piracy, either the lost income from pirated copies or the development and enforcement cost of anti-piracy measures.

The basic point of this overly long post is if you want to lower the price of software and remove the phoning home that is now becoming more common, purchase legitimate software and support the anti piracy measures, which are a necessary evil

Just my personal opinion of course

I completely agree. I don't blame MS or anyone for trying to protect their copyrights. And I have no problem with MS or any other company making a profit. I don't use pirated software and I support most anti-piracy measures.

The problem I have with phoning home is the potential and the temptation for abuse - and it has been abused. The bottom line for me is that I am a very independent individual. I want to make my own choices and I fully accept the responsibility, accountability, and consequences that come with the freedom to make my own choices. I do not want corporations or government making my choices and decisions for me. That is just me.

 

[wallyinnc]

How come a pirate's mostly custom built state of the art rig can cost a lot, with all the latest GPU's and SSD's and cooling systems and whatever, but the pirate thinks it would be too much to pay hundred bucks or so to get the state of the art OS to go with his pride and joy, The Rig?

Is it because hardware and components are not so easy to steal? Steal only what's easy to get without getting caught?

Exactly.

Some of the members here who do not like the WAT are most definitely not pirates. They simply do not want their computers phoning home. They have nothing to hide; they simply resent an outsider controlling their computer.

Carl, I don't want to question you or heat up the discussion further. But I would like to understand. The usual argument is like that, they don't want their computer being controlled by anybody. What kind of control or info is sent to MS besides the registration info (I really don't know, it is an open question)? I think it is nothing more than that, so it really boils down to paying for the software or not, doesn't it?

 

[CarlTR6]

But you trust them enough to run their OS, AV, and apps... ???

Darryl, please note that I stated I do not trust MS, Adobe GM, etc and I said that I do not necessarily distrust them either.

I trust MS to develop and engineer an O/S and software that are reliable, work properly and do the job that I need done. IMHO MS fulfills this very well. I do not necessarily trust MS corporate agenda and policies. I trust Ford to build me a truck that is reliable, dependable, and functions well. That does not mean I endorse or trust Ford's corporate agenda and/or policies. I trust Triumph to build me a motorcycle that gets me from point A to point B and is reliable. That does not mean that I trust John Bloor. This doesn't mean that I distrust him either. I would not like Ford or Triumph telling me where to drive/ride, when to drive/ride, having me report to them how I am using their products, or tracking where I have driven or ridden.

This is just the quirky old guy that I am.

 

[Darryl Licht]

But you trust them enough to run their OS, AV, and apps... ???

Darryl, please note that I stated I do not trust MS, Adobe GM, etc and I said that I do not necessarily distrust them either.

I trust MS to develop and engineer an O/S and software that are reliable, work properly and do the job that I need done. IMHO MS fulfills this very well. I do not necessarily trust MS corporate agenda and policies. I trust Ford to build me a truck that is reliable, dependable, and functions well. That does not mean I endorse or trust Ford's corporate agenda and/or policies. I trust Triumph to build me a motorcycle that gets me from point A to point B and is reliable. That does not mean that I trust John Bloor. This doesn't mean that I distrust him either. I would not like Ford or Triumph telling me where to drive/ride, when to drive/ride, having me report to them how I am using their products, or tracking where I have driven or ridden.

This is just the quirky old guy that I am.

Yeah I caught myself on that after I posted the response to you.

However, I do trust MS to deliver updates. As the hackers find bugs/loopholes/back doors into Windows OS, I trust MS to deliver appropriate patches and bug fixes via auto updates. Why not? I trust them enough to use their OS over many alternative OS's. I dont agree with all their business practices either, but I dont fear the updates from them or my AV provider.

MS is the worldwide leader in SW with approx 88% of the world running a MS OS, therefore all the hackers want to attack and find these backdoors etc. So MS owes it to us, their loyal customers, to provide these updates in a timely and reliable method... and historically they have. If people are not running a legit copy MS has every right IMHO to shut the illegal copies down, and potentially prosecute the theives.

I am a teacher and consultant and I support and have built hundreds of PC's over the last decade and a half and I always use MS OS's. But I am MS certified and I must uphold the company line as its where my bread is buttered!

PS - I dont know about that Triumph, but good to hear you are a Ford man!

 

[mpcrsc562]

9/11
Madrid
Bali
wherever else...

everything is way more connected now.

if i'm going to fly somewhere, i put up with the hassle of extra screening. even as the innocent flyer, i may be pulled aside, asked some questions, and (maybe) have to submit to my luggage being searched. i'm still the innocent flyer, i just had to put up with an annoyance.

if i'm going to use my pc--and i'm not doing anything illegal--i have no fear of my os phoning home. besides, if the software maker (whoever they may be) states in their disclaimer that no personal info is sent, and it is found out later that personal info was in deed sent, 1) software maker's credibility is seriously jeopardized and 2) potential lawsuit -- further damaging software maker's credibility and potential to stay in business

 

[CarlTR6]

Yeah I caught myself on that after I posted the response to you.

However, I do trust MS to deliver updates. As the hackers find bugs/loopholes/back doors into Windows OS, I trust MS to deliver appropriate patches and bug fixes via auto updates. Why not? I trust them enough to use their OS over many alternative OS's. I dont agree with all their business practices either, but I dont fear the updates from them or my AV provider.

MS is the worldwide leader in SW with approx 88% of the world running a MS OS, therefore all the hackers want to attack and find these backdoors etc. So MS owes it to us, their loyal customers, to provide these updates in a timely and reliable method... and historically they have. If people are not running a legit copy MS has every right IMHO to shut the illegal copies down, and potentially prosecute the theives.

I am a teacher and consultant and I support and have built hundreds of PC's over the last decade and a half and I always use MS OS's. But I am MS certified and I must uphold the company line as its where my bread is buttered!

PS - I dont know about that Triumph, but good to hear you are a Ford man!

LOL I have been riding Triumphs - along with other brands - since I bought my first Triumph in 1966. I starting riding in 1958. I am not a cruiser guy.

Back to topic. I trust MS to deliver updates; I just don't trust that these patches are always right - from experience. I also do not need patches for features that I never use and don't intend to use. That is why I do not do automatic updates. I review each update before I download and install it and I usually wait a few weeks to see if the update has caused any problems, This is a hold over from XP days. If there are no reported problems with an update and it fits my system as I use it, I will install it.

 

[mpcrsc562]

another bit of irony:

people are weary of the wat update phoning home but they will use:
-google search
-google chrome
-google dns
-google etc....

the largest and most visible company who collects data... sometimes personal...

you cry over microsoft's update to combat piracy because you want control over your pc, but you give your info freely to google...

<scratches head>:huh:

 

[CarlTR6]

I rarely use Google for just that reason. I have limte what my browser sends them and I have blocked Google analytics and other Google side programs that gather data.

besides, if the software maker (whoever they may be) states in their disclaimer that no personal info is sent, and it is found out later that personal info was in deed sent, 1) software maker's credibility is seriously jeopardized and 2) potential lawsuit -- further damaging software maker's credibility and potential to stay in business

And that is exactly what MS was guilty of which led to my skepticism. But note, I did install WAT.

 

[mpcrsc562]

I rarely use Google for just that reason. I have limte what my browser sends them and I have blocked Google analytics and other Google side programs that gather data.

besides, if the software maker (whoever they may be) states in their disclaimer that no personal info is sent, and it is found out later that personal info was in deed sent, 1) software maker's credibility is seriously jeopardized and 2) potential lawsuit -- further damaging software maker's credibility and potential to stay in business

And that is exactly what MS was guilty of which led to my skepticism. But note, I did install WAT.

i agree with you... making a general statement to those whom it applies

 

[CarlTR6]

I rarely use Google for just that reason. I have limte what my browser sends them and I have blocked Google analytics and other Google side programs that gather data.

besides, if the software maker (whoever they may be) states in their disclaimer that no personal info is sent, and it is found out later that personal info was in deed sent, 1) software maker's credibility is seriously jeopardized and 2) potential lawsuit -- further damaging software maker's credibility and potential to stay in business

And that is exactly what MS was guilty of which led to my skepticism. But note, I did install WAT.

i agree with you... making a general statement to those whom it applies