Windows 7 End of Support

[townsbg]

We don't want to go down the path of updating windows ourselves. We don't know the source code so we would have to reverse engineer Windows. In doing so we would violate number laws/EULAs and we don't want to be liable is something messes up. We are only here for support and many here have either jumped on the 10 bandwagon or have gone with Linux.

 

[LevelBest]

I like Valerian's idea of trying to help ourselves to maintain Win7 security.

I have decided to stick with Win 7 until I experience evidence of any security failures. In preparation, I have been making two system images each month, I regularly back up docs/photos/music etc. I have Malwarebytes running alongside McAfee, so we see how this goes.

A few weeks ago, I had quite a bit of work to do to make preparations, and I spent a couple of days making copies, backing up, running various things to ensure computer health, in-between a bit of browsing, replying to emails etc etc. When I had finished, it occurred to me that I had not experienced one single problem, everything performed quickly and perfectly. And it made me think that there is nothing wrong with Windows 7, the issue is that MS are withdrawing it's support - and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the system.

 

[Valerian]

"After all, just what exactly is a 'security patch', beyond an automated install of things that we could just do manually on our own?"

It's a piece of code that has to be written by specialists who fully understand the base code of windows and the nature of the fault or issue - Microsoft are the only ones with the full base code and they are winding down the support even for those who are willing to pay for the services

Although the members here will continue to support others here as they and we always have, we will not be party to some kind of fraudulent company being set up to circumvent the Microsoft rules and probably National Laws

Well I do happen to understand all your points, and it would help if you should know that first off, I was only being somewhat provocative in suggesting that the community develop their own security patches 'as if it were easy'! Perhaps what I had meant is that it would be a 'Very Good Thing' if there were a sub forum dedicated towards that goal, no matter what level of effectiveness it may have

Secondly, I absolutely did not mean to say that anyone here should try setting up a fraudulent company with the aim of deceiving Microsoft and/or scamming them on a service that they have only just made available to the general public

I think it would be very helpful to give serious consideration towards officially contacting Microsoft about how to legally proceed with such a program. As a very important part of that effort, we would guarantee to Microsoft that such a business arrangement will help to reduce the impact of unpatched Win7 machines that Microsoft already is anticipating - based on their past experiences from discontinuing previous OS's

Even if that means that Microsoft should still receive the full amount of licensing fees per machine as they have already described. We could look at the possibility of charging an additional amount in order to offset the costs of running such a program. I suspect there are plenty of people out there who would pay twice the amount that Microsoft is intending to collect! And we could offer a more flexible pricing scheme towards members. Such details would only be left to the imagination for now

If Seven Forums could offer a way to continue securing Win7 for the next 3 years, it would only be a matter of days before the entire world would join the membership here. For private citizens, there are no options available to continue using Win7 in a manner that does not add stress to our daily lives

 

[Valerian]

I like Valerian's idea of trying to help ourselves to maintain Win7 security.

I have decided to stick with Win 7 until I experience evidence of any security failures. In preparation, I have been making two system images each month, I regularly back up docs/photos/music etc. I have Malwarebytes running alongside McAfee, so we see how this goes.

A few weeks ago, I had quite a bit of work to do to make preparations, and I spent a couple of days making copies, backing up, running various things to ensure computer health, in-between a bit of browsing, replying to emails etc etc. When I had finished, it occurred to me that I had not experienced one single problem, everything performed quickly and perfectly. And it made me think that there is nothing wrong with Windows 7, the issue is that MS are withdrawing it's support - and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the system.

You sir, are a true pioneer! Daring to tread across terrain that you yourself have seen to be easily navigated

I would recommend that you add one more layer to your defenses: Sandboxie - Sandbox software for application isolation and secure Web browsing

I have been running that sandbox software on Win7 Home Premium 64-bit, for a number of years now and have had zero malwares as a result. Before using that sandbox, I was running Threatfire and SuperAntiSpyware. Then later added in the Security Essentials from Microsoft. I was constantly finding malwares, and I think a few got past my defenses. I had to buy a new license key and re-install the OS, because my anti-malware softwares had failed. That's when I finally began to take sandboxing more seriously. My hardware is based on a Intel DP55 series board, with an i3 CPU and 4 gigs RAM. Graphics card has an additional 4 Gigs. The sandbox adds an extra 0.8 seconds to launching Firefox, but otherwise has no other slowdowns in surfing. There is the minor inconvenience of needing to open the browser outside of the sandbox any time I want to add a new plugin or update the existing plugins. Bookmarks as well. But I see that as a daily proof that it works as intended

 

[Valerian]

We don't want to go down the path of updating windows ourselves. We don't know the source code so we would have to reverse engineer Windows. In doing so we would violate number laws/EULAs and we don't want to be liable is something messes up. We are only here for support and many here have either jumped on the 10 bandwagon or have gone with Linux.

Yes, good point. So, with that as one rule, just how much can be done here in order to roll our own security patches? I know that there are many different tips, registry hacks, and such that all can be categorized as one form or another of patching the OS. I remember the XP era when I was looking at various long-winded lists of unnecessary services that could be disabled and or removed. I would be surprised if Win7 doesn't also have such a list. But it's worked so much better than XP, that I've never really felt the need to go through all that work. Now that we are on our own with securing the OS, this will change

 

[townsbg]

This is entirely different. Changing a registry setting is just the same as going into control panel and changing any of the values there (such as disabling automatic updates) and that is as you pointed out, entirely legal. It's just another methodology of changing certain settings although not as obvious. The same thing for developing/applying a theme or (if you want to get technical) installing a program. It's changing functionality using methods that M$ allows and tells you how to do it. To patch the OS you would have to reverse-engineer the source code built into the dll and exe files and that source code is copyrighted. We cannot legally create our own patches since we would have to access the source code. That is technically software piracy (which is also a violation of the rules here) since we don't own Windows. Now I don't know what 0patch is doing but I can't imagine it being much different than that. Now yes if we can get permission to purchase and redistribute the patches M$ will be releasing over the next 3 years then it would be legal but we would have to get that in writing.

I think that people forget that when they purchase windows they are buying a license to use it and only under certain conditions which we have to agree before use. Just like a driver's license. It is required to drive a car on the city streets and we can do so under certain conditions. We can drive it on our private property (if we have enough) all day long. Only open source software can be modified in the way that you describe and that is only because the author released it to the public. You want to write a software program or your own OS you can do with it want you want. You want to pay someone enough for the copyrights you also can do with it what you want. Good luck getting the copyrights for Windows because being Microsoft's biggest cash cow I'm sure that their price is much higher than most people in the world can afford.

 

[Valerian]

This is entirely different. Changing a registry setting is just the same as going into control panel and changing any of the values there (such as disabling automatic updates) and that is as you pointed out, entirely legal. It's just another methodology of changing certain settings although not as obvious. The same thing for developing/applying a theme or (if you want to get technical) installing a program. It's changing functionality using methods that M$ allows and tells you how to do it. To patch the OS you would have to reverse-engineer the source code built into the dll and exe files and that source code is copyrighted. We cannot legally create our own patches since we would have to access the source code. That is technically software piracy (which is also a violation of the rules here) since we don't own Windows. Now I don't know what 0patch is doing but I can't imagine it being much different than that. Now yes if we can get permission to purchase and redistribute the patches M$ will be releasing over the next 3 years then it would be legal but we would have to get that in writing.

I think that people forget that when they purchase windows they are buying a license to use it and only under certain conditions which we have to agree before use. Just like a driver's license. It is required to drive a car on the city streets and we can do so under certain conditions. We can drive it on our private property (if we have enough) all day long. Only open source software can be modified in the way that you describe and that is only because the author released it to the public. You want to write a software program or your own OS you can do with it want you want. You want to pay someone enough for the copyrights you also can do with it what you want. Good luck getting the copyrights for Windows because being Microsoft's biggest cash cow I'm sure that their price is much higher than most people in the world can afford.

Maybe considering how to patch the OS ourselves is not the best line of inquiry at the moment. You did just remind me that such patches would be an attempt to replicate the work that will be done by Microsoft for the next 3 years


But that was not the only idea I threw out there

 

[Barman58]

We have discussed this possibility for the forums and short and sweet answer, it just ain't gonna happen.

Even if Microsoft allowed access to their code, which they are not, as some is still used on current projects, we do not have the resources either coding wise or financially.

We obviously never considered at any time hacking into the Microsoft code as although it's happened with games coded by small companies it's not possible with one of the largest corporations on the planet. Microsoft will retain a specialist staff of hundreds supporting Windows 7 for the next three years, all of who are fully familier with the code. Training alternative specialists would take many more years so is a pipe dream,

We have no intention of sevenforums closing and will continue to provide a platform for members to help each other, but we are not going to produce patches and I doubt anyone else is except microsoft as already stated, for major companies who are willing to purchase additional support above what they already have, and pay for.

The price for this support varies some companies with thousands of licences will pay less than $50 per system per year, those with hundreds of systems will pay a lot more. And microsoft will not make much, if any, profit on this when you consider the costs in engineers alone

 

[Valerian]

Starting to get the feeling this horse has up & died from under me...

 

[townsbg]

Starting to get the feeling this horse has up & died from under me...

Unfortunately, yes because M$ has the big bucks behind them and very few individuals, companies, and even some countries have enough cash to compare. They aren't going to release the source code because their livelihood is tied up in it. Even if they did it takes a high degree of skill to program an OS. They aren't likely to sell patches to a co-op either but only to big businesses because of their desire to get everyone off of 7 and on to 10. On top of that many here have refused to install any update since the roll-up model was put into place so they won't contribute.

As it stands if you continue to use 7 after end of support you do so at your own risk and (although I can't speak for the staff) I think that it is the official recommendation of this forum that users upgrade. As stated we'll continue to help users as much as we can but that'll become harder. There are as you can see some die hard users that want to keep with 7 and/or have switched to Linux as an alternative. There are now numerous threads on this subject that have been going on for the past few years with many regular users posting their stance. You can read the arguments for and against staying on 7, upgrading to 10, or switching to Linux or another Unix derivative. Ultimately it is your choice on what to do but I strongly suggest before making up your mind that you read the posts, ask questions if you don't understand something, and perform research. As part of your research you might check out the Vista forum and read on the issues that users there have experienced since end of support for Vista because I'm sure that most of them will come true with 7 even if it takes more time to do so. Support from major software manufacturers will start to wane as users drop off of 7 and it ages without support. That has happened with every release of Windows before 7 and unfortunately it'll eventually happen with 7.

 

[Valerian]

Well, I'm about to evaluate Win10 vs Ubuntu. I have a low end netbook running Win7 that I'm going to upgrade to Ubuntu. And then all of the software I was using on that, I'll install on a 15" Thinkpad I just bought for $80. This thinkpad came with an i5 processor that would've cost me double that to get for my main PC, and it came with a 64-bit Win10 Pro


So I'll be test driving Win10 after all. Securing that is the first challenge. Just beginning to poke around in it and I'm finding all sorts of stuff that I had to deal with in Win7 years ago. I'm not surprised, haven't heard much about Win10 being all that much better than Win7. Guess I might be heading over to the ten forum just to find out what all needs to get fixed


The netbook is my security camera setup rig. It has an ethernet port and a handful of software that I've found useful to deal with ip cameras and routers. So part of what I'll be doing is seeing if Win10 can install and run properly the software I already know how to use. And really, if there's a single Win7 application that Win10 can't run because backwards compatibility wasn't seen as profitable...

 

[Wingnut62]

I was SO close to getting the free Win 10 install---when the Setup Wizard advised me that my NVIDA GeForce 6150 LE was not compatible; display problems would happen. So I canceled the download.

Any suggestions on how I can correct this issue? Or am I SOL?

 

[Wingnut62]

I was SO close to downloading Win 10---but got a warning my NVIDA GeForce 6150 LE would have problems displaying Win 10.

Any way I can fix this issue---or am I SOL?

 

[Valerian]

I was SO close to downloading Win 10---but got a warning my NVIDA GeForce 6150 LE would have problems displaying Win 10.

Any way I can fix this issue---or am I SOL?

You might try reading this thread: NVIDIA: GeForce 6150 LE - Windows 10 Forums

 

[michael diemer]

I doubt this is going to work. I have a very similar graphics, 6150 SE, and Windows 7 has no problem with it. But even Linux systems gave me trouble. I could only get the lightest of them, and 32 bit, to make them work. That's because they are current systems, like Windows 10. Hardware that old needs older Windows systems, or light Linux systems. I am using Zorin lite and LXLE on mine. They work well, with only an occasional display weird-out, where I have to shut down. I could put in a new graphics card, but the machine is 10 years old. At some point you have to think about not sinking any more money into it. Sometimes you need to compromise, if you still want to use the machine. Why not put Linux on it, and use a newer machine for Windows 10? If you have Windows 7 on the machine, you could dual-boot with Linux. That way you keep Windows 7 (yay) and still have a safe Linux system to go online with. you can even install Windows 7 within Linux as a virtual system, where it will be totally safe to go online with it. Many options these days.

 

[BlueGuy]

I never had that problem, I always kept a library of nVidia drivers on CD/DVD over the years or gotten them from NVidia's own archive or filehippo or its clones or SourceForge. Then shoe-horned to work, as most drivers are upgraded for game performance or GUI, the basic guts are the same just for running on monitors. On a fresh install, you can't hurt anything by performing a do-over. Doesn't W10 provide you with a dialogue to install a driver from external media?

AthanasianCreed said:
I have the GeForce 6150 SE integrated card - the version you want is 309.08, it can be found here -...
http://www.nvidia.com/download/drive...px/82758/en-us - 64 bit...

Both drivers will work with your card according to the Nvidia website (Supported Products)...

Yeah, the suggestion to use 309.08 is the best way to go, you just want to get all the video chips "turned on".
As an experiment, start with the suggested driver, then go backwards, for as the thread reads that is the last driver that will work with such old hardware.

 

[lehnerus2000]

CVE

In a few months, the number of discovered holes in W10 will exceed W7:

• W7 (after 10 years) = 1283
• W10 (after 5 years) = 1111

Top 50 products having highest number of cve security vulnerabilities

 

[Melchior]

In a few months, the number of discovered holes in W10 will exceed W7:

• W7 (after 10 years) = 1283
• W10 (after 5 years) = 1111

Top 50 products having highest number of cve security vulnerabilities

lol Windows is security hell then?! lol

 

[BlueGuy]

lol Windows is security hell then?! lol

Look at good 'ol Windows 2000, near the bottom with the fewest, guess M$ just kept buggering it up ever since.

 

[Bree]

In a few months, the number of discovered holes in W10 will exceed W7:

• W7 (after 10 years) = 1283
• W10 (after 5 years) = 1111

Top 50 products having highest number of cve security vulnerabilities

Interesting that the top five places in that table (all in excess of 2000) belong to Linux (3 entries), Android and Mac Os X. I'm assuming that 'discovered' also means 'fixed', else it's saying Linux is by far and away the least secure (that can't be right, surely?).