Solved Would like to have some opinions

[essenbe]

It really does seem to be. I agree. So, I guess that means you're going water Jack. Good luck to you. I've wanted to get away from it, but the cooling it provides makes that difficult, especially where I live. I'm seriously considering it. The case has some seriously great features, if it was built right. One more thing I like about it. It is put together with screws and not Rivets which means it would be easy to mod if you needed to. Also, if you need space for a GPU and remove the reservoir bracket, there is a place for it on the outside rear of the case. Personally, I would rather have mine on the outside. Think of the options.

 

[whs]

Layback, if you are considering the Cosmos, you are obviously considering water cooling. Don't get me wrong, the Cosmos is an excellent case. I considered it myself. Having said that, there are cases out with better options for water cooling. One being the fairly new release of the Corsair 900D. It is an extremely large case and very heavy too. But amazing builds can be done in them. I sincerely doubt there is a product on the market that you would have to ask whether it will fit the case. Reading some consumer reviews, there are some complaints about the quality of the case. Nothing that can't be easily fixed, but there are some. Another case that has caught my attention has been released in the past couple of days. It looks to be amazing and very configurable. It is the Phanteks Enthoo Series Primo. Watch the video (there are several one after the other.) and read some reviews on it. It seems that they have built a case made for water coolers. It even has a bracket to hold the reservoir and a place to put the pump already laid out. The PSU goes in the rear of the case which should make cable management very easy. The only drawback I can notice is the max length of video cards is 10.1" But, that is with the Reservoir bracket installed. Without the bracket you can go to a 12+" video card. Personally, I don't see the problem with that. It just means that if you have a long GPU, you are exactly where you would be with any other case. Put it where you can find space, but it also shows the forethought that went into the case. I would like to see some user reviews first, but with what I've seen, I don't see how you can think about serious water cooling and not consider this case.

EDIT: Not to speak of the fact that it is $100 cheaper.

Steve, regarding the Phanteks box - who needs 5 External 5.25" Drive Bays and what does one do with them anyhow. Doesn't that make the box unneccesarily bulky.

 

[essenbe]

I use mine, for several reasons and they give you options. Plus any time you are putting several water cooling radiators in a computer, it is necessary for it to be large and bulky. Yes, you can get by with less 5.25" bays, but I have 4 in my case right now and could use another. It just depends on how you set your case up and what you want to do with it.

 

[Layback Bear]

I also like the screws. To me their are many option to place the cooling system reservoir. With the data size of hard drives removing a drive bay shouldn't be a problem. You still have a lot of drive space internal and external drive bays is something I don't use. I back up to internal drives and so desired when done just remove them and store else where. Removing a internal drive takes about 2 minutes.
The filter system is just the best I have seen and the bottom ones coming out the side is a plus.
To me the big plus is you can do anything you want to do.
Great air cooling in several ways and water cooling radiator placement choices. Their are just so many choices.
When I build a computer I always start with choosing a care/tower. The next thing is the power supply.
I have chosen the Corsair AX-1200i. I don't like the price but everything else is great. All the reviews I found had nothing but praise except the price.
With that case/tower and power supply it's as close to being future proof as one can get for those items.
I haven't chose the CPU yet because I understand that Intel is coming out with a new one that isn't a Haswell but I don't know what and when.
I'm not building a gaming computer or work station ect.
I want one I can do what ever I want to do or change.
Their will come a time when money or lack of stops my dreams but with that combination of case/tower and power supply I will be able to add anything at a later date.
I'm a virgin or at least young and dumb when it comes to water cooling part selection so I surly will need a lot of help in that area.

 

[essenbe]

I agree with everything you said, Layback and I would be happy to help as much as I can. I use water cooling now, but am far from an expert. Right now I have a 360mm rad up top and am adding at least a 240, To do that I had to remove 3 hard drive bays and have no place to put a pump and reservoir. So, I'm relegated to using a dual 5.25" bay reservoir which is a PITA. This case could solve all those problems and then some. It affords the option to set it up almost any way you would like to. The extra 5.25" bays could become hard drive bays or even hot swap drive bays. As it stands, I'm having to use large capacity hard drives, which are much more prone to failure than smaller drives. So, a case like this could solve several problems without issue. It is smaller than the Cosmos II and the 900D, which to me are it's only competition right now, unless you want to spend a small fortune on a Mountain Mods, Silverstone, or Case Labs case. And it is about $100 cheaper than the Cosmos or 900D. If you do water cooling it's hard to turn down.

 

[whs]

You guys are awsome. I wish I could see better. Then I would attempt a build myself. Now I am stuck with what's on the market and even for adding SSDs I need the help of my wife.

Just had my cataract fixed. That helps a bit but it does not make me an eagle.

 

[essenbe]

Then you could join the Seven Forums overclocking club, WHS. I'm sure you could find someone to build it for you. Heck, I'd do it if we lived just a little closer. But, you're in the rich part of Florida. I'm in the poor end of the state. LOL. But, picking your own parts and setting it up the way you like it, is worth the trouble. Besides, it's fun but can be very habit forming.

 

[Layback Bear]

Well I hope your sight gets better whs.
Part of the fun/work of building your own system is doing the research. I have been looking over a month at cases and the proper wanted power supply. How I missed the Phanteks case is unknown to me.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...Steve, regarding the Phanteks box - who needs 5 External 5.25" Drive Bays and what does one do with them anyhow. Doesn't that make the box unneccesarily bulky.

In my case, I have three 5.25" bays and wish I had one or two more. The top one is the not-so-ubiquitous-anymore optical drive that I consider to be essential (I rip a lot). Under it is an internal card reader/additional USB 3.0 ports. The bottom bay is where I put my 3.5" internal HDD dock that use for backups. I would have needed another bay for a 2.5" internal HDD dock but, fortunately, there is one already built into my case (an Antec Two Hundred; a midget compared to the leviathans being discussed here). I wouldn't mind having a bay to put a fan controller and temperature monitor into and another bay for a little drawer for keeping USB sticks, etc. in. Alas, cases small enough to fit where I keep my computer just will not have that many 5.25" bays unless I sacrifice internal 3.5" HHD bays, something I was loath to do.

I've seen water cooling reservoirs that reside in one or two 5.25" bays so one can easily see the coolant level without opening up the case. Some even had the capability to be filled from the front. Some people have controllers for the LED case lighting housed in a 5.25" bay. Some MOBOs, such as some of the Asus ROGs come with an external device for controlling overclocks, etc. that can also be housed in a 5.25" bay. Some people like to have all their HDDs easily accessible for replacement without having to open up the case, especially when running a RAID and 5.25" bays are ideal for putting docks into (I've seen some cases that had nothing but 5.25" bays in them for that reason). I'm sure I've missed plenty of other uses for 5.25" bays.

I also hope your eyesight continues to improve. My Mama had to have cataracts removed from both her eyes and it helped her immensely.

 

[essenbe]

Well I hope your sight gets better whs.
Part of the fun/work of building your own system is doing the research. I have been looking over a month at cases and the proper wanted power supply. How I missed the Phanteks case is unknown to me.

The reason you missed it is probably because it was only released on 10/17. I heard some discussions about it on Overclock.net, so I looked it up. I stopped my build right away. It really isn't a new build, I'm just moving my rig from my HAF X to a NZXT Switch 810, and adding some stuff like another radiator to it. I was going to add another GPU to it also, but that can wait now. What I have will do most anything anyway. Like I say, it's an addiction.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...I back up to internal drives and so desired when done just remove them and store else where. Removing a internal drive takes about 2 minutes...

That's pretty much what I do for backups except it would take me more than two minutes to remove an internal drive. I'm also too lazy to do it that way. That's why I have a 3.5" dock installed in my bottom 5.25" bay. I like the Antec Easy SATA because it's simple, without any internal electronics, so should handle any capacity HDD (there are other docks available). To perform a backup, I just plug in a HDD, run the backup, then unplug it and put back in a drawer (I have an anti-static foam "egg crate" to store my HDDs in inside the drawer). Easy peasy. If you don't have a free bay to install a dock, you could also use an external dock. Using an e-SATA connection would make it as fast as what you are doing now without the time and hassle of installing and uninstalling drives internally (I have one I retired now that I have the one installed in my machine but I keep it "just in case"). Some of the newer USB 3.0 external docks are almost as fast as e-SATA.

 

[essenbe]

I have 2 external hard drive docks. Both Thermaltake Black X's. 1 is a single and the other is a dual drive dock. I can swap hard drives in 30 seconds and they stay out of the way. But, both are esata. I still haven't seen a USB 3.0 that's nearly as fast as esata., so that's what mine are. I also have a USB 3.0 dock mostly to use on my Wife's laptop which does not have esata, USB 3.0 only. I also back up to an internal drive. Can't have too many backups. And with esata you can have different OSs on it or run VMs from it.

 

[whs]

Then you could join the Seven Forums overclocking club, WHS. I'm sure you could find someone to build it for you. Heck, I'd do it if we lived just a little closer. But, you're in the rich part of Florida. I'm in the poor end of the state. LOL. But, picking your own parts and setting it up the way you like it, is worth the trouble. Besides, it's fun but can be very habit forming.

Thanks for the offer Steve. But if someone else did it for me, I'd miss all the fun.

Well I hope your sight gets better whs.

LB, thanks for the good wishes. But my eyes won't get better. The macula degeneration I can just keep at bay with shots into the eyes every 6 weeks. That's no fun - since nearly 4 years.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

...Can't have too many backups...

You got that right!

I don't like having internal backups because whatever takes out a drive inside the machine could also take out the backup. The exception to that is I do make an image of my boot drive at least once a week and save it to a folder on my main data drive but the reason for that is it then gets backed up externally when I back up that drive. Doing that reduces the number of HDDs I need knocking about and also eliminates the amount of duplicate images I was doing (did I mention I'm lazy?). I can (and do) restore from the image on the main data drive but, if that drive should go south, I still have the image on the two local backups I have (I'm a firm believer in planned redundancy) and an earlier one on the backup I keep in my safe deposit box at my credit union.

 

[Layback Bear]

essenbe is their any brand names you recommend for water cooling? It would save me a lot of looking.

 

[essenbe]

XSPC radiators and CPU blocks are good, Swiftech is good, Alphacool is pretty good. If you want looks as well as good products, Monsoon compression fittings are good as well as bittspower. I recommend compression fittings as opposed to barbs. Monsoon and bittspower are on the expensive side, but are very good and good looking too. Koolance is also good. I get my parts mostly from FrozenCPU.com | 1.877.243.8266 | World's Largest Selection of PC Modification Supplies, mostly because they seem to have the largest selection, but Computer Liquid Cooling & Premium Air Products, Parts, Kits & Accessories | Sidewinder Computers and Performance-PCs.com, ... sleeve it and they will come are good also. I've bought from all 3 and received excellent service from them all. FrozenCPU is probably the largest but the others are good too. They all 3 will normally ship the same day you order and I would have no hesitation to buy from any of them. Right now I have an XSPC 360mm radiator and an Alphacool NexXxos UT60 120mm cooler. They are both probably among the best you can get. Black Ice rads are quite popular too. If you need any more help, feel free to ask. As with most things computer wise, which is best is subjective and opinions can differ.

EDIT: with radiators pay attention to how many Fins Per Inch. It matters if noise is a concern. The fewer FPI the slower the fan speed can be, higher FPI need high RPM fans (read noisy) When buying fans, the CFM does not matter as much as static pressure. You need high static pressure to force the air through the radiator.

One of the best places to research is http://martinsliquidlab.org/. He is an expert as he does extensive tests on most products and is very well known and respected in liquid cooling circles. Overclock.net is another great place to find answers. They build some killer rigs and know as much as anyone around about liquid cooling.

The 2 best pumps on the market are the MCP 35X and MCP 655 (both made by Swiftech but used by others and rebranded, but still the same pump). They both have their advantages and disadvantages, but either one would do well for anything you or I would want. A good beginners guide is here. http://www.sevenforums.com/pc-custom-builds-overclocking/233104-water-cooling-guide.html

 

[Layback Bear]

XSPC Copper Raystorm AX360 Extreme Intel CPU Water Cooling Kit w/ Twin D5 w/ Free Dead-Water! - FrozenCPU.com

XSPC Copper Raystorm AX360 Extreme Intel CPU Water Cooling Kit w/ Twin D5 w/ Free Dead-Water!

This is what I found so far.

 

[paulpicks21]

I use mine, for several reasons and they give you options. Plus any time you are putting several water cooling radiators in a computer, it is necessary for it to be large and bulky. Yes, you can get by with less 5.25" bays, but I have 4 in my case right now and could use another. It just depends on how you set your case up and what you want to do with it.

That is very true Steve, as you know I have 4 too, but until recently when I added the NZXT Hue case lighting (which uses a single 5.25" slot) I had none of the 4 in use.

 

[essenbe]

That's the way I started, with an XSPC Kit. It's a good way to start. My kit was the older type, and I'm not sure about the newer ones. they have an AX, RX and EX type kits and I can't tell you the difference anymore. You can just send an email to frozenCPU and ask them, they will respond with an answer, or any of the places I mentioned. For what you are going to need it for a twin pump is not really needed. It's value comes in redundancy. If one pump goes out, you still have another that will be more than enough to do the job. A D5 pump is the MCP655, which pumps a lot of water. The DDC is the MCP35x, which does not pump as much water but has higher head pressure. That means a lot. Many of the 'experts' think the 35x is better because of the head pressure. I have the D5 version. The Copper Raystorm block is the costlier version and I believe is for looks. The acetal Raystorm does not look as good but is still copper where it counts, and is what I have. I presume you are looking at the dual bay reservoir. That's what most of the XSPC kits come with. You can vhange later if you want to, which is what I'm trying to do. If you go with the dual bay reservoit be sure to leave the bay above it empty. That is how you get into it to fill it. Otherwise, you have to remove the device above it to get to the fill port or not connect it securely, like I did to slide it out and fill it. If you do that, allow for it when you measure the length of the hoses. I'm just telling you what I learned the hard way. The kits will come with everything you need to connect it. They usually come with compresion fittings, but make it easier on yourself and buy a couple of 45 degree fittings. You will need them. It helps tremendously when making the bend with the hoses not to kink the hoses. Otherwise either you will have kinks in a couple of the hoses or the bend will require you to use way too much hose, which will look bad. Stay away from 90 degree connections if at all possible. They reduce water flow a lot. I will use 2 45's before using a 90. Some people use them anyway, but that's just for looks, in my opinion.

 

[essenbe]

I use mine, for several reasons and they give you options. Plus any time you are putting several water cooling radiators in a computer, it is necessary for it to be large and bulky. Yes, you can get by with less 5.25" bays, but I have 4 in my case right now and could use another. It just depends on how you set your case up and what you want to do with it.

That is very true Steve, as you know I have 4 too, but until recently when I added the NZXT Hue case lighting (which uses a single 5.25" slot) I had none of the 4 in use.

Very true Paul, but as I said it gives you options. With your case the 360mm Rad sticks into the top bay which renders it almost useless. I managed to put a fan controller in that slot. Then with the dual bay reservoir I have uses 2 more. And with the Hue it uses the last one. That leaves no place for a DVD/Blue Ray for those of us who really need one, and I do. I know you don't but I convert a lot of DVDs and it would help greatly. I have to use an external USB one now which is painfully slow. So, for me, yes, I could easily use 5 slots. Others don't need near that many. If I had extra bays I would buy a 4 in 3 Bay hotswap hard drive kit and get rid of the internal bays for the extra room. Others don't need or want that. But, that's what I meant when I said it leaves you with options. Or as Lady Fitzgerald said, it allows her to use the card reader and other devices which are important to other people. As I always say about Microsoft, this is not a one size fits all world. :roflmao: Sorry, had to get that in.