More on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 servicing changes

[lehnerus2000]

What is the easiest way of determining the KB code of the Security Only Rollup?

Even though MS said the W7 security-only package would only be available from the MS Update Catalog, here it is available as a download from their regular website ...

KB3192391

No need to stress out over Active-X / IE and that antiquated website.

Thanks.

 

[Dallas 7]

I got my updates today and one of the updates on the "Important" list is KB2952664, which was one of the ones we avoided because of it's connection with the W10 garbage. I removed that one a long time ago.
Now it's back and says it has no GWX or upgrade functionality in it. Is Microsoft trying to pull another back door trick or what?

 

[spc3rd]

Good morning again,

For what it's worth...although I have yet to receive the usual popup notification that updates are available, my ESET SS program shows the following alert about the Patch Tuesday updates (at the bottom part of the list, there are something like 4 "Optional" updates listed):

 

[ThrashZone]

Good morning again,

For what it's worth...although I have yet to receive the usual popup notification that updates are available, my ESET SS program shows the following alert about the Patch Tuesday updates (at the bottom part of the list, there are something like 4 "Optional" updates listed):

Hi,
A lot of those updates are just telemetry junkware
I'd dump ESet in a millisecond if "or any security program calling a lot of those updates as important or insisting on loading recommended updates at all

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I find the original paste in Brink's first post confusing, as follows:

There is a "security-only quality update", not found on standard Windows Update. This is apparently NOT cumulative.

Then there is a "security monthly quality rollup", which WILL be on Windows Update.

Questions:

1: Is the "security monthly quality rollup" going to contain ANY non-security updates?

If no, then why not just get it from Windows Update?

If yes, why is it named "security monthly quality rollup"?

2: I see the wording regarding the rollup is "the initial monthly rollup released in October will only have new security updates from October, as well as the non-security updates from September."

Does that wording mean that the rollups AFTER October WILL NOT contain "non-security" updates, but that the October rollup WILL contain "non-security updates"? Again--if the "rollup" will contain non-security stuff, why call it a "security monthly quality rollup"?

I would prefer to get ONLY security updates and to get them CUMULATIVELY through Windows Update.

An ordinary reading of the first portion of Brink's first post in this thread suggests that will be possible. Correct or not correct?

 

[spc3rd]

Good morning again,

For what it's worth...although I have yet to receive the usual popup notification that updates are available, my ESET SS program shows the following alert about the Patch Tuesday updates (at the bottom part of the list, there are something like 4 "Optional" updates listed):

Hi,
A lot of those updates are just telemetry junkware
I'd dump ESet in a millisecond if "or any security program calling a lot of those updates as important or insisting on loading recommended updates at all
View attachment 392674

Hi TZ and thanks for the feedback!

I won't be installing any updates via ESET SS. In fact, I just went into the program and disabled the function which generates what is shown in the screenshot I included. (I'd noticed it before - over the past few months, but just never got around to locating & disabling that option in ESET SS). I plan to wait until Friday or Saturday - to see if any issues are reported here with these latest Patch Tuesday updates - before trying to install them.
[I haven't yet received the usual "popup" that the updates are available, anyway].

Cheers!

 

[Painter]

... edited to reply

2: I see the wording regarding the rollup is "the initial monthly rollup released in October will only have new security updates from October, as well as the non-security updates from September."

Does that wording mean that the rollups AFTER October WILL NOT contain "non-security" updates, but that the October rollup WILL contain "non-security updates"? Again--if the "rollup" will contain non-security stuff, why call it a "security monthly quality rollup"?

I would prefer to get ONLY security updates and to get them CUMULATIVELY through Windows Update.

An ordinary reading of the first portion of Brink's first post in this thread suggests that will be possible. Correct or not correct?

The announcement was probably written by a techie and edited by a lawyer or a marketing genius :sarc:

They botched the way they explained it. The September updates (both security and non-security) get rolled into the October update. You can not skip the October rollup and install the November rollup. In other words, it is cumulative. The naming of this rollup should have been The October 2016 Rollup. The words, 'security' and 'quality' should have been eliminated. You will continue to see non-security updates in this rollup every month until 2020.

The Security-only Rollup is not cumulative and it is aptly named. However MS says it will not be available through Windows Update, as you duly noted. You can complain to MS - good luck with that.

 

[Callender]

I manually checked for today's PT updates and had 4 important and 2 optional available.
I installed the 4 important updates, rebooted, and let mscoresvw recompile for the net framework update.
Re-booted, and the 2 optional updates i didn't install were no longer listed as available for me.
I got a notification of another new important update available for KB3177467.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3177467
I installed KB3177467, and then the optionals are listed as available again.

No problems here so far.
Just weird that the optionals disappeared/reappeared, and another important was available.

Well I don't know about this new update system but usually after installing updates and rebooting it takes a while before you get the correct missing/ optional updates showing up as available. The reason is that your machine needs to be re-scanned for installed updates and it can take a while. I've always found it best to wait for trustedinstaller.exe and svchost (netsvcs) to finish after a reboot before rechecking for updates.

Currently I have not received this months updates. They will probably arrive later or tomorrow here in the UK.

I made as system image backup yesterday after getting everything patched.

I can confirm that I had the same update appear on my work machine: KB3177467 after installing the other updates. I did not get KB3177467 on my home machine because I'd already installed it.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3177467

However if I look at the file list on both machines the replacement files sit in WINSXS only.

See this post and link in post here: New KB3184143 Update to Remove Windows 10 Upgrade Offer

 

[Brds7t7]

From what I've read, the Security only update is not going to be cumulative. This is going to make installing security only updates extremely difficult on new installs. Unless you keep the security-only update rollups for every month.

The Security Quality rollup contains security fixes and all the other updates (except what MS classes as "out-of-band updates"). This will be fully cumulative eventually and incorporate everything.

I just don't see how clean installs are going to be easy from now on (if you want to pick and choose), unless you keep every month's security only updates and install them separately, plus all past patches you want separately too.

Or install the cumulative update and have to put up with everything being installed.

I have kept all the update packs from Dr. Windows, up until the end of September for new installs. I've yet to decide what I'm going to do about future updates.

This would have been a lot easier if MS had made both updates (security-only and security quality rollups) cumulative. Then users who just want the security updates on a fresh install could just install one update and be up-to-date security wise. Maybe this makes things more difficult for business environments though?

 

[Borg 386]

So, how to avoid telemetry, spyware and other so called "updates" ?

Once the updates become fully cumulative, you won't be able to, unless you go for the security only update option. Or unless MS does leave some updates separate. But according to their articles they want to incorporate all past patches.

Well, I'm curious as to if after the cumulative update the patches will be listed individually in the update history. If so, they could be researched & removed if needed.

There are a couple programs out there that say they block the telemetry of Windows. Most are designed for 10, some have adapted to include 7 & 8.1

https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

Doing a Google search yields known telemetry tracker KB's to avoid.

I also came across this article during some searching:

4 Tools to Update Windows Offline and install Hotfixes from a Local Source • Raymond.CC

 

[Brds7t7]

So, how to avoid telemetry, spyware and other so called "updates" ?

Once the updates become fully cumulative, you won't be able to, unless you go for the security only update option. Or unless MS does leave some updates separate. But according to their articles they want to incorporate all past patches.

Well, I'm curious as to if after the cumulative update the patches will be listed individually in the update history. If so, they could be researched & removed if needed

Good question. I think MS wants us all to be on the same patch level, so once the fully cumulative updates come into force, I don't think individual patches will be removable. I don't see how that would work.
My guess is any patches that were installed before the update change might still show up in the history but won't be removable.

If they're going by the Windows 10 cumulative update model, then they won't allow people to remove individual patches once cumulatives are installed (they'll be classed as one patch). I hope I'm wrong about this.

It also depends on what MS wants to incorporate into the cumulatives. If, as they say, it will incorporate every past patch.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I have kept all the update packs from Dr. Windows, up until the end of September for new installs.

How many of these are there and can you post a link to this "Dr. Windows", which I can't find with my browser? Do you have a list of KBs?

I rarely reinstall and may not have to for years, but I want the least painful way to get security only updates on into the future, which I assume would mean permanently saving whatever you got from "Dr. Windows", plus the monthly non-cumulative "security only quality update" package. Beginning with October and NOT available through Windows Update.

 

[Brds7t7]

I have kept all the update packs from Dr. Windows, up until the end of September for new installs.

How many of these are there and can you post a link to this "Dr. Windows", which I can't find with my browser? Do you have a list of KBs?

I rarely reinstall and may not have to for years, but I want the least painful way to get security only updates on into the future, which I assume would mean permanently saving whatever you got from "Dr. Windows", plus the monthly non-cumulative "security only" package.

Hi Ignatzatsonic,

Unfortunately I can't post links to that site. I was asked to remove it last time as the site is in German. The packs are in English though. There is one pack for 32-Bit and one for 64-Bit.
I've used the packs many times though for 7 and 8.1 and they work well. You can choose the patches you want to install/exclude when you run it. Or you can use the option to just extract the patches.
Just look up "Dr. Windows Update pack" and they should come up in Google.

 

[Borg 386]

Good question. I think MS wants us all to be on the same patch level, so once the fully cumulative updates come into force, I don't think individual patches will be removable. I don't see how that would work.
My guess is any patches that were installed before the update change might still show up in the history but won't be removable.

If they're going by the Windows 10 cumulative update model, then they won't allow people to remove individual patches once cumulatives are installed (they'll be classed as one patch). I hope I'm wrong about this.

It also depends on what MS wants to incorporate into the cumulatives. If, as they say, it will incorporate every past patch.

I did go to the information page when the cumulative update appeared & individual KB's are listed, everything included in the cumulative. As of now it looked like only security updates were on this one. With the KB numbers listed, notes could be kept & then perhaps they could be removed via command line individually.

But yeah, they may set up something so that they can't be removed individually. Wouldn't surprise me :sarc:

I've never tried or heard of anyone removing an individual patch from 10 that came bundled as a cumulative. Anyone ever try this by chance?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Unfortunately I can't post links to that site. I was asked to remove it last time as the site is in German. The packs are in English though.

Ja wohl!

Found it and downloading.

Thanks Brds.

 

[Brds7t7]

Unfortunately I can't post links to that site. I was asked to remove it last time as the site is in German. The packs are in English though.

Ja wohl!

Found it and downloading.

Thanks Brds.

No problem

If you try them out in a VM, make sure you set Windows Update to "Never Check", stop the Windows Update service and set it to manual. Otherwise, the pack will stall at the first update.

 

[Borg 386]

When I look for more info on the update listed as "Security monthly quality rollup," I see a summary of several items & clicking on the MS #'s takes you to the description as well as the KB #.

I've also read on a couple sites that the Windows Update Catalog may offer stand alone packages of individual patches.

 

[Brds7t7]

But yeah, they may set up something so that they can't be removed individually. Wouldn't surprise me :sarc

I have to be honest and say I'm not 100% sure how they work on 10. As I don't really use it, other than what I've tested in VM's. I wasn't impressed enough to upgrade though.

My understanding was the cumulatives were just one big patch that gets built on every month and not individuals. So, when you do a clean install you just install one patch and not individual patches?

Also, remember that these 7/8.1 patches have not yet become fully cumulative, that's going to be happening over the next few months and will take up until mid 2017.

It's going to be an interesting few months ahead anyway!

 

[Borg 386]

Alrighty, I just d/l ed the update (Security Monthly Rollup) and it appears in my update history as one update without individual KB's. it also shows up that way under programs/features.

However this makes me wonder if individual ones can still be yanked out via command line if you get the KB number 1st from the summary.

Yeah, interesting is not the word I would use, but I can't use that word here.....

I have 10 as well as 8.1 & 7 32 & 7.64, but I really don't use 10 much.

 

[Swizz]

A question concerning the Security Monthly Rollup, (199.4MB) as well. Lets just say one update fails to install for whatever reason, will the remaining continue to install?