Stability Question

[Mellon Head]

The Auto setting for RAM will normally set the memory parameters to "safe" setup values, in order that the PC will boot. RAM manufacturers use the JEDEC settings as a starting point, as they will allow a boot up with almost any motherboard.

As spyknee mentioned, the first thing to do is to go into BIOS and adjust the RAM settings manually to the manufacturers specs in order to get the advertised speed and timings for the RAM. This normally also means that you can expect reasonable stability at these settings, but the first thing you should do with a new build is to run a memory test for a while.

I use a little BIOS checklist:

1. First boot, reset BIOS, reboot, then check all BIOS parameters and set up drives, USB, etc.
2. Look at the hardware monitor tab, and check system, CPU, and RAM voltages.
3. Adjust CPU and RAM voltages to spec.
4. Set RAM timings to spec.
5. Save and reboot.
6. Go BACK into BIOS and check the hardware tab, and all of the system parameters to make sure they are right.
7. Reboot and use or install Windows with at least some confidence.

The Auto setting is usually a bad idea for voltages. I've killed both CPUs and RAM when using it.

 

[spyknee]

Case on point.

My XP machines mobo died. I had to find a mobo that would handle all my 5 year old hardware. It uses dominator ram, 2.4v. New mobo default for ram, is set for 1.8v. With 4 sticks in, no POST/voltage warning beeps. It would however, POST with only 1 stick in, with a couple tries that is. Set ram timings and volts and now machine will POST with all 4 sticks in, no problem. This particular ram has tight timings and will not even think about OC'ing, but give it what it wants, POOF.

 

[Dave76]

Advice given on any forum is up to you to decide if you want to try the suggested methods to solve your issues.

What the many volunteers expect in return, generally accepted forum etiquette, is to give as much information as you can, including what you may think is not relevant to the issue at hand.
Most importantly, inform them on what you have previously done. What steps you have followed and what steps you have decided not to follow.

There are many things that seemingly would have absolutely no effect on situation A, but in fact will have an effect.

EDIT:
You should go back to this thread you started and follow the recommendations given in the Crashes and Debugging forum.

Bad_pool_header

This is no longer a problem since I reinstalled.

Then reply to this thread explain what you did and state why you no longer prefer to continue the Debugging process.

The person is taking their valuable time to help you and you just abandoned the thread.
So their time spent on the last post could have been used helping someone else.

If this type of inconsiderate action continues, the members here will use their time to help others that appreciate the valuable advice given freely.

And another in Crashes & Debugging where you were getting BSoDs analysed and suddenly stopped saying you would live 'with 2.1 audio till I reinstall again' !! What does that mean?

My audio drivers will not work without causing BSODs. Without them I can only use my speakers in a 2.1 configuration instead of 5.1

I'm sorry I did not mention those other threads but in most cases the problem has either gone away or is no longer relavant (i.e. I reinstalled).

You are having re-occurring BSoD issues, what you think is "relavant" may be better decided by more experienced members.

You need to FULLY disclose any previous issues and what actions you have done to fix them, if these are half done or possibly incorrect, they might have an impact on your current problems.
Let the more experienced members know what you have done.

You have updated drivers, tried several tools, reportedly un-installed programs possibly causing conflicts, in other threads within the last two weeks.
With this information, members here would not have had to search for drivers that you have already installed, or spend time looking for possible solutions that you have already tried.

My second suggestion...

It seems I have linked to the wrong page for the RAM (I didnt know RAM was different for AMD and Intel mobos). This is the one I bought - its voltage spec seems to match the AMD edition but the link says its optimized for Intel...

Should I set it to the manufacturer recommended 1.65V or the SPD/JEDEC recommended 1.5V?

Again, your are looking at settings for Intel, you will need to use settings for AMD.

You will possibly need to bump the RAM voltage to get it stable, but jumping to a much higher voltages is not safe or recommended.
You can damage the RAM and memory controller, which is integrated on your CPU, so the CPU can be damaged.

EDIT:
I've just done some research (e.g. source 1, source 2) and it seems that when using "Intel optimized" RAM in an AMD system, you should manually input the voltage and timings because the BIOS wont recognize them correctly by itself. Is this what I should do?

Have you read and understood the link to the OCZ forum, from your 'source2'?

DDR3 1600MHZ and higher issues read here.

This is an older thread, these exact steps do not pertain to your CPU.

Generally these are the type of steps required to overclock RAM.
Some of these basic steps will be required to adjust the RAM voltage.

The important points are slow, small steps, test for stability, retry if not stable.
Know the limits of your RAM, CPU and Memory Controller, do not exceed the voltage limits.


You have been given good advice on how to proceed, you should follow it.

As Mellon Head suggested, again, in post #61, you need to set your RAM settings manually to the manufacturers specs.
Since this RAM is for Intel, the specs listed on their site are not for your motherboard and CPU.
You need to get the specs from OCZ for this RAM on your CPU and motherboard. Since this information is not posted on their site, you should use the SPD JEDEC specs.
Which will not be optimized for your CPU and motherboard.

This could very well be the reason you are getting BSoDs.

These are general specs, as mentioned in the above post, and should allow your computer to start.

You might get lucky and change a couple settings and get the RAM to run stable.

It might take many setting adjustments and stability tests or, may not work at all.

This is why I suggested to return the RAM and get AMD RAM.

From the OCZ website:
Dual Channel DDR3 - Optimized for the AM3 Platform

AMD AM3 DDR3 Platforms Only, 4GB (2x2048MB) D/C Kit PN - OCZ3G1333LVAM4GK

 

[jalebi]

Advice given on any forum is up to you to decide if you want to try the suggested methods to solve your issues.

What the many volunteers expect in return, generally accepted forum etiquette, is to give as much information as you can, including what you may think is not relevant to the issue at hand.
Most importantly, inform them on what you have previously done. What steps you have followed and what steps you have decided not to follow.

There are many things that seemingly would have absolutely no effect on situation A, but in fact will have an effect.

EDIT:
You should go back to this thread you started and follow the recommendations given in the Crashes and Debugging forum.

Bad_pool_header

This is no longer a problem since I reinstalled.

Then reply to this thread explain what you did and state why you no longer prefer to continue the Debugging process.

The person is taking their valuable time to help you and you just abandoned the thread.
So their time spent on the last post could have been used helping someone else.

If this type of inconsiderate action continues, the members here will use their time to help others that appreciate the valuable advice given freely.



You are having re-occurring BSoD issues, what you think is "relavant" may be better decided by more experienced members.

You need to FULLY disclose any previous issues and what actions you have done to fix them, if these are half done or possibly incorrect, they might have an impact on your current problems.
Let the more experienced members know what you have done.

You have updated drivers, tried several tools, reportedly un-installed programs possibly causing conflicts, in other threads within the last two weeks.
With this information, members here would not have had to search for drivers that you have already installed, or spend time looking for possible solutions that you have already tried.

It seems I have linked to the wrong page for the RAM (I didnt know RAM was different for AMD and Intel mobos). This is the one I bought - its voltage spec seems to match the AMD edition but the link says its optimized for Intel...

Should I set it to the manufacturer recommended 1.65V or the SPD/JEDEC recommended 1.5V?

Again, your are looking at settings for Intel, you will need to use settings for AMD.

You will possibly need to bump the RAM voltage to get it stable, but jumping to a much higher voltages is not safe or recommended.
You can damage the RAM and memory controller, which is integrated on your CPU, so the CPU can be damaged.

EDIT:
I've just done some research (e.g. source 1, source 2) and it seems that when using "Intel optimized" RAM in an AMD system, you should manually input the voltage and timings because the BIOS wont recognize them correctly by itself. Is this what I should do?

Have you read and understood the link to the OCZ forum, from your 'source2'?

DDR3 1600MHZ and higher issues read here.

This is an older thread, these exact steps do not pertain to your CPU.

Generally these are the type of steps required to overclock RAM.
Some of these basic steps will be required to adjust the RAM voltage.

The important points are slow, small steps, test for stability, retry if not stable.
Know the limits of your RAM, CPU and Memory Controller, do not exceed the voltage limits.


You have been given good advice on how to proceed, you should follow it.

As Mellon Head suggested, again, in post #61, you need to set your RAM settings manually to the manufacturers specs.
Since this RAM is for Intel, the specs listed on their site are not for your motherboard and CPU.
You need to get the specs from OCZ for this RAM on your CPU and motherboard. Since this information is not posted on their site, you should use the SPD JEDEC specs.
Which will not be optimized for your CPU and motherboard.

This could very well be the reason you are getting BSoDs.

These are general specs, as mentioned in the above post, and should allow your computer to start.

You might get lucky and change a couple settings and get the RAM to run stable.

It might take many setting adjustments and stability tests or, may not work at all.

This is why I suggested to return the RAM and get AMD RAM.

From the OCZ website:
Dual Channel DDR3 - Optimized for the AM3 Platform

AMD AM3 DDR3 Platforms Only, 4GB (2x2048MB) D/C Kit PN - OCZ3G1333LVAM4GK

Okay, I'm sorry. I'm new to going to a forum for help and was unaware of the etiquette. It was stupid of me to make assumptions and not fully disclose everything I have done or any other problems. I did not mean to offend anyone and do truly appreciate everyone's help.


I finally figured out that this is my RAM and I've set the timings to match the specs accordingly. I ran memtest86+ for 12 hours (13 passes) and there were no errors.

I do not know a thing about CPU voltage or what I should do about it, if anything at all. This is my CPU, and according to my BIOS, the voltages are:

CPU Offest voltage: 1.308
CPU/NB voltage: 1.175

Do I change anything or leave it be?

Just to be clear, I have no intentions of overclocking - I just want to get the most stability/power from my system within recommended/manufacturer limits.

Sorry for being such a hardware (and forum etiquette) noob. Don't get the wrong impression, I am very grateful for your help and have immense respect for what you do. It's helpful people like you who make the internet such a useful resource.

 

[Dave76]

Those actions make it very difficult for people to help you.

Let's learn from this and move on.


Which specs did you set the RAM to?
As mentioned previously you should not set them to the Intel specs posted on the OCZ site, the best specs to go by for now will be the SPD JEDEC specs that were in CPUZ.

JEDEC specs are from industry standards and added to your RAM cards by the manufacturer, OCZ, so they can be used to get the computer to boot the first time. If they are not stable you will have to adjust the settings or RMA the RAM cards as not compatible.

Post the exact settings you changed in your BIOS.

I do not recommend to change any CPU or CPU/NB voltage at this time.

If you are still getting BSoDs, I recommend to go back to the Bad_pool_header thread and continue there.

Tell them all the steps you have taken from this thread, give them a link to here so they can see what has been recommended and tried.

 

[jalebi]

Those actions make it very difficult for people to help you.

Let's learn from this and move on.


Which specs did you set the RAM to?
As mentioned previously you should not set them to the Intel specs posted on the OCZ site, the best specs to go by for now will be the SPD JEDEC specs that were in CPUZ.

JEDEC specs are from industry standards and added to your RAM cards by the manufacturer, OCZ, so they can be used to get the computer to boot the first time. If they are not stable you will have to adjust the settings or RMA the RAM cards as not compatible.

Post the exact settings you changed in your BIOS.

I do not recommend to change any CPU or CPU/NB voltage at this time.

If you are still getting BSoDs, I recommend to go back to the Bad_pool_header thread and continue there.

Tell them all the steps you have taken from this thread, give them a link to here so they can see what has been recommended and tried.

Previously, my RAM was set to 1.5V and CL timings of 9-9-9-24.

Following the specs from the OCZ site (OCZ DDR3 PC3-10666 Gold Low Voltage Dual Channel OCZ Technology - I can confirm that this is definitely my RAM), I set the RAM to a voltage of 1.65V and CL timings of 9-9-9-20.

I have replied to the Bad pool header thread with updated info relating to all the things I have tried in order to fix the driver-caused BSOD

 

[Dave76]

Did you see this at the OCZ link you posted?

OCZ low-voltage DDR3 kits are designed specifically for the Intel® P55 Chipset and subsequent Intel® Core™ i7, i5, and i3 (Socket 1156) processors.

The specs they have listed on the OCZ site are for the above Intel CPUs and Chipsets.

The SPD JEDEC specs from CPUZ, this information is loaded on your RAM from OCZ, when it detects the AMD processor this is the recommended settings.
The only difference, the voltage is 1.5v for AMD.

Were your still getting BSoDs at RAM voltage of 1.5v?

Have gotten any BSoDs at 1.65v?

You should have the RAM in the blue slots, is this where they are?

Have you used the Core Unlock function?

What BIOS version are you running?

There is the possibility that you will need to bump the RAM voltage, but you need to do it in slow, small steps.
The ultimate goal is to get it running stable at the lowest voltage setting.



Good post at your Bad_pool_header thread.

Lets consider that thread your primary help thread, I think they have a good chance to narrow down the possible causes for the crashes.
You can answer questions here or elsewhere, but don't make any changes or do any tests until agreed on by someone at the Bad_pool_header thread.

This will control the troubleshooting process.

 

[jalebi]

Did you see this at the OCZ link you posted?

OCZ low-voltage DDR3 kits are designed specifically for the Intel® P55 Chipset and subsequent Intel® Core™ i7, i5, and i3 (Socket 1156) processors.

The specs they have listed on the OCZ site are for the above Intel CPUs and Chipsets.

The SPD JEDEC specs from CPUZ, this information is loaded on your RAM from OCZ, when it detects the AMD processor this is the recommended settings.
The only difference, the voltage is 1.5v for AMD.

Were your still getting BSoDs at RAM voltage of 1.5v?

Have gotten any BSoDs at 1.65v?

You should have the RAM in the blue slots, is this where they are?

Have you used the Core Unlock function?

What BIOS version are you running?

There is the possibility that you will need to bump the RAM voltage, but you need to do it in slow, small steps.
The ultimate goal is to get it running stable at the lowest voltage setting.

I was under the impression that the RAM was designed to run at a specific voltage regardless of chipset manufacturer, the only difference being that with an AMD mobo you have to input the voltage and timings manually. From what I understood, the 1.5V and 9-9-9-24 timings are there just so that the computer can boot with any mobo. I have not had a BSOD (except for the audio driver related one) at 1.65V and the system is stable for now (and it ran memtest86+ for 12 hours with no errors).

My RAM is in the blue slots (A1 and A2 I believe they are called).

I flashed my BIOS so its the newest version available. I have not used the core unlocker function because I read that it can cause irreversible stability issues; I'd first like a rock-steady 3-core system before trying anything risky.

 

[Dave76]

RAM has many different settings and controls, the memory controller also plays a key roll.

It is a well known problem trying to get Intel optimized RAM to run on AMD motherboards.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it will not.
It depends on the RAM mostly but, all the other components also.

If you look on any RAM website you will find most RAM says that it is designed specifically for Intel or designed specifically for AMD.
The reason for this is they don't mix very well.

It can sometimes be adjusted and will work, then again sometimes Intel RAM won't work on a certain computer but, will work on a completely identical computer sitting next to it.
I believe you have seen this already.

Each CPU runs differently, the overclocking forums call this the luck of the draw.
Certain lots of CPUs tend to run and/or overclock better, but some CPUs from the 'Good' lot won't run very well.
Same with RAM, sometimes RAM will pass all tests and not cause BSoDs on one computer but, have errors and cause crashes on an identical computer sitting next to it.

This is what makes overclocking and troubleshooting so difficult.


It's good news that you haven't had any BSoDs.

The blue RAM slots are the Asus recommended slot for 2 RAM cards.
From your motherboard manual pg 1-9 it's slot A1 and B1.

That's good, don't unlock the core. If you do want to, wait until the system is running stable for a month and it can cause serious instability issues.

 

[jalebi]

RAM has many different settings and controls.

It is a well known problem trying to get Intel optimized RAM to run on AMD motherboards.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it will not.
It depends on the RAM mostly but, all the other components also.

If you look on any RAM website you will find most RAM says that it is designed specifically for Intel or designed specifically for AMD.
The reason for this is they don't mix very well.

It can sometimes be adjusted and will work, then again sometimes Intel RAM won't work on a certain computer but, will work on a completely identical computer sitting next to it.
I believe you have seen this already.

Each CPU runs differently, the overclocking forums call this the luck of the draw.
Certain lots of CPUs tend to run and/or overclock better, but some CPUs from the 'Good' lot won't run very well.
Same with RAM, sometimes RAM will pass all tests and not cause BSoDs on one computer but, have errors and cause crashes on an identical computer sitting next to it.

This is what makes overclocking and troubleshooting so difficult.

Ah, computer hardware is quite inconsistent in that way.

Since increasing the voltage (from 1.5V to 1.7V first then 1.65V after I found the correct specs for my RAM) there hasn't been a single unexpected BSOD. So, it appears that either increasing the voltage or disabling Driver Verifier (which I seem to remember doing at about the same time - after 36 hours of no BSODs with it enabled) has prevented those BSODs.

The only BSOD I seem to be having now is when I install the aforementioned audio drivers. This occurs even when driver verifier (which is designed to stress drivers) is disabled

 

[Dave76]

Looks like your zeroing in on the cause.

Sometimes it's more than one cause.

Let the guys in Crashes & Debugging look into this further.

 

[jalebi]

Looks like your zeroing in on the cause.

Sometimes it's more than one cause.

Let the guys in Crashes & Debugging look into this further.

Yeah, hopefully. Just one question: from your experience, how much of a difference can something like too low a voltage make to stability? Could my RAM running at 1.5V actually have made the system less stable? My knowledge of hardware is very limited so I can't begin to understand...

 

[Dave76]

Definitely can cause instability and BSoDs.

Happens all the time.

Sometimes it can be hard to get the settings right.
There are a couple more you have to adjust, sometimes.

 

[Keiichi25]

Looks like your zeroing in on the cause.

Sometimes it's more than one cause.

Let the guys in Crashes & Debugging look into this further.

Yeah, hopefully. Just one question: from your experience, how much of a difference can something like too low a voltage make to stability? Could my RAM running at 1.5V actually have made the system less stable? My knowledge of hardware is very limited so I can't begin to understand...

Certain Chipsets and Hardware expect certain values for a specific reason. It is like trying to hookup one of your devices to an AC Adapter. If you don't use the right voltage and amp setting on a universal AC adapter, you have a chance of either burning out the system or not providing enough power to the system. The same happens with the Computer system, hence you need to read more about your system or make sure you get the specific parts of your computer.

If you don't do so, you run into problems such as what you had as far as stability. Memory Timing and Voltage is due to how the board is made and also the type of memory you get. The memory is designed to work at certain timings and at a certain voltage level. Having too much voltage or the wrong timing means the memory does not return data either the proper order or at all, which causes an error and causes the OS to Blue screen because it did not get information properly and it throws up its hands going, "WTF?!?"

This is why, initially, we stated not to mess with the settings. Normally, the board would have detected the correct settings, if the ram was the right type for the board. Most people tweak those settings due to changes in the system, namely overclocking to get it to work properly. But if you are using memory that is optimized for a different chipset, the board will have some problems because the memory might be expecting one set of conditions and not another or designed to only handle certain conditions.

From experience, the rule of thumb for hardware changes or upgrades is research before buying. Know your board, know what it takes and expects. Research the parts you plan to put in or at least use memory finders from various vendors to see what memory will go with the system and if there are needs you need to do. And most importantly... Don't mix RAM. The most common and annoying mistakes a lot of users do is mix RAM manufactures within a system. The reason not to do this is that different implementations of RAM configurations have been a source of stability problems due to timing and settings. If you plan on upgrading RAM, you should consider doing a complete replacing to avoid introducing more headaches such as different manufacturer ram in your system.

 

[Dave76]

Good explanation, RAM selection is one of the key points to any build.

This is why all motherboard manufacturers always have a Qualified Vendors List (QVL).