Drivers for older ATI cards in Windows 7!

[GarethS10]

Hello

I currently have an NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 AGP card in my Dell Dimension 8200 Desktop PC and I was wandering about replacing that card for an ATI card something like the ATI radeon 9600 AGP card but I noticed that the drivers for that card are only for Windows Vista and are not Officially supported under Windows 7 and I was wandering just how good those drivers are for that Graphics card as they are Vista Drivers runnin in Windows 7! Do they get any laggyness in the Aero Display effects when you open and close some windows and also within media centre?

I only a few months back changed to the NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 AGP card from the original NVIDIA GeForce 3 Ti200 Graphics Card my Dell PC Came with and I made a mistake with that card as the card is very laggy in Windows Vista and Windows 7 but does display aero but the Lag is so annoying! Its because the drivers for that card are from 2006 and were never official and they were BETA drivers and never came out as a fully operational set of Drivers!

If I was to buy the ATI Radeon 9600 AGP card I would like to have my mind set at rest that my PC would not have the lag of the drivers being too old or out of date or incompatible in both windows Vista and Windows 7!

Please Tell me what Card you think is worth the Money to buy (It has to be an AGP card that will run Aero and work well with a 250W Power supply and have drivers updated!)

I also have my Eye on the NVIDIA GeForce 6200 AGP card which I know is a really good card as I know someone with that card in their machine (and although it runs on XP the drivers are updated all the time) and even though their PC is a PCI Express Graphics Card Slot it still works perfectly and nearly every month NVIDIA updates the drivers for that card so your never outdated!

Please Help!

 

[IggyAZ]

Hi and welcome.

Probably the Vista drivers would work.
99.9999999% sure.
I'd try that before spending money if you are tight at the moment.

 

[neo101]

Hello

I currently have an NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 AGP card in my Dell Dimension 8200 Desktop PC and I was wandering about replacing that card for an ATI card something like the ATI radeon 9600 AGP

Please Help!

Gareth you need to do some legwork and properly investigate this >

From what I remember
You need to find out what voltages are supported and AGP 2x 4x (8x) on your motherboard? Then match compatable cards.

The Nvidia 5000 series were the last gpu's made that could handle the higher agp slot voltages!

Nvidia 6200 gpu's and on can't handle high voltage AGP slots on older motherboards!

Ati carried on a bit longer making higher voltage capable (backward compatability) cards.

I think ATi 9600/9700/9?? series were the last line of GPU that could cope with older high voltage AGP slots AND were direct x 9.0 compatable.(educated guess) but you might need a more powerful Power supply to support this line (as they used more and ran pretty hot.)

 

[Fumz]

I have never heard of such a thing.

Motherboards do not indiscriminately volt. The video card's bios tells the motherboard's bios what voltage to provide, and the motherboard provides it. Unless you tell it otherwise, you're in no danger of having your board over-volt your video card; that's something you can only do if you manually volt the card.

What I have heard of, and have experience with, is running video cards at a higher hz on the agp bus. Nvidia cards can handle a higher hz, up to 70hz, whereas ATI cards have always been problematic if you don't keep them at 66hz.

GarethS10, is there any particular reason why you're choosing the cards you are? Certainly there are more powerful AGP cards than the ones you've selected... and the last time I checked (about a month ago) they were fairly cheap?

The 96/9700's are on par with the Ti 4400/4600; thus, the 5x card you have is a later model. I would have said better, but the 5x line was a dog, as I'm sure you're aware.

 

[stormy13]

Fumz this is what he was referring to with regards to AGP voltage,

Accelerated Graphics Port - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

which according to here,

Documentation

the motherboard in the Dimension 8200 came with the version 2.0, which will be fine with the 9600.

 

[Fumz]

It's my understanding that what the Wiki article refers to is signal speed, which is different from the voltage given to the card; essentially, this has no effect on the card itself and is only relevant to the AGP bus. In short, you can't fry your card no matter what AGP version you use. If the card fits, you're safe... right?

The signaling voltage is the voltage used to send data between the AGP card and the AGP motherboard. "1x" means "1 times". 1x is the base AGP speed. 2x is twice as fast as the base speed, 4x is four times as fast, and 8x is eight times as fast. You can download the final AGP 3.0 specification from here. You may also want to look at the AGP 1.0 specification, the AGP 2.0 specification, and the AGP Pro 1.1a specification.

AGP compatibility for sticklers

Unless I'm totally mistaken? Have you ever heard of something like that happening?

 

[stormy13]

This explains it better,

AGP compatibility for sticklers

 

[neo101]

I have never heard of such a thing.

Motherboards do not indiscriminately volt.

Yep fraid so! I've been building PC's since circa 1990!

AGP Nvidia 6200 onwards - you can fry your card as in the old days motherboard manufacturers did not keep to full AGP specs and if your card lines up with a mal-slot > instant fire and smoke! :shock:

Other reasons for card-frying from Stormy's wiki link>

It is important to check voltage compatibility as some cards incorrectly have dual notches and some motherboards incorrectly have fully open slots.
Furthermore, some poorly designed older 3.3 V cards incorrectly have the 1.5 V key. Inserting a card into a slot that does not support the correct signaling voltage may cause damage.

 

[Fumz]

Based on that article I linked, which Stormy also linked, the voltage their referring to has to do with agp bus signal speed... ie tranfering data on the bus, and not actual voltage to the card.

Besides, (and this is perhaps the biggest reason you can't fry a card) the cards employ different slots making it impossible to actually fit a 1x agp card into a 4/8x agp slot. There's little chance of frying a card that's sitting on your desk.

The AGP 1.0 specification requires that all implementations support the 1x speed multiplier at 3.3 volts. The 2x multiplier is optional. There's no such thing as a 3.3 volt video card or motherboard which only supports 2x. By default, when the AGP 1.0 machine powers up it selects the fastest speed multiplier supported by both the video card and the motherboard. If they both support 2x then they will run at 2x. Otherwise they run at 1x which is always implemented by all AGP 1.0 video cards and motherboards. There is often an option in the BIOS which allows you to limit the speed to 1x if 2x is not reliable. The AGP 2.0 specification has a similar requirement. 2x and 1x support at 1.5 volts are required and 4x support is optional. The AGP 3.0 specification requires support for 8x. The 3.0 specification isn't as clear as the 1.0 and 2.0 specifications on the subject of requiring the lower multiplier but all AGP 3.0 implementations that I've seen support both 8x and 4x. As a result, you can completely ignore speed multipliers when you're checking for compatibility between an AGP video card and an AGP motherboard. If the video card and motherboard both support the same signaling voltage then there is always at least one common speed multiplier supported by both at that voltage.

Not to mention that you can't find an AGP 1.0 card these days... and even if you could, it would not fit into the board.

**edit**

I'm really not trying to be argumentative... it's just that I've never heard of frying a card this way.

The OP's board is agp 2.0/4x. The card he's running is agp 8x. The two cards he selected are also agp 8x, so I see no reason why we should fill him with fear about frying the card. Am I missing something here?

 

[neo101]

A typical case study - he's darn lucky his 6200 card didn't match to a wrong key and FRY in an 'unconventional' AGP 2.0 slot!
http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t16738.html

Enjoy your little trolling session and convincing yourself for the rest of this thread!

 

[GarethS10]

Hello

Thanks for your responses!

Lets make it clear first what i want to do!

I currently have a 256MB NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 AGP currently in my computer but because of video laggyness in Vista and Windoww 7 Aero I want to replace and also of the Driver Issue as well as the drivers are from 2006 for Vista/7 and never got out of the "BETA" Stage! I wanted to get another card which is compatible and will work with my PC and wont lag on the aero Effects!

The AGP slot on my PC is a AGP 4X Slot!

Most AGP Graphics Cards are compatible with 4x slots as I know and I cant replace the power supply from the standard 250W ATX it came with because of the problem off all the new power supplies have the ON/OFF Switch on the back and my PC does not have the room for that switch and I cant find one without a switch!

 

[TVeblen]

The Dimension 8200 has AGP 4x graphics that run max 32 bit @ 66MHz. It has a 172 pin, 1.5v slot. It can run in 2x or 4x mode.

All of the cards in the class you are looking at are Universal - meaning they will switch voltage to work in the slot. But a card that is designed for 3.3 volt may not perform well at 1.5v, so you should avoid these if you can if you are going to attempt W7 on that machine.

From the PlayTool Site:
"One practical matter which must be considered is the fact that some of the original AGP 1.0 motherboards do not provide enough power to operate some newer AGP video cards reliably. For example, some of the original motherboards using the first chipsets which supported AGP (like the Intel 440LX and 440BX) can become unstable if you install video cards which draw lots of power through the AGP slot. The motherboards can't always supply the necessary current for the newer video cards. So if you're adding a video card to an AGP 1.0 motherboard then it's a good idea to install a video card which doesn't consume very much power."

The Vista drivers for these older cards will run as well as can be expected under W7. Just use the most updated one on the nVidia or ATI website. It can be a try and see process.

I've refurbished two 8100s and can tell you that that class of PC is getting really long in the tooth. The 8200 wasn't much of an upgrade from those. I don't think that I would spend a lot of money trying to carry that beast along for too long!

 

[Fumz]

A typical case study - he's darn lucky his 6200 card didn't match to a wrong key and FRY in an 'unconventional' AGP 2.0 slot!
NVIDIA Forums > GeForce N6200 causing POST problems?

Enjoy your little trolling session and convincing yourself for the rest of this thread!

Well, you learn something new every day; although, since there was never any danger of that happening, this was sorta like issuing a tsunami warning in Kansas.

 

[neo101]

A typical case study - he's darn lucky his 6200 card didn't match to a wrong key and FRY in an 'unconventional' AGP 2.0 slot!
NVIDIA Forums > GeForce N6200 causing POST problems?

Enjoy your little trolling session and convincing yourself for the rest of this thread!

Well, you learn something new every day; although, since there was never any danger of that happening, this was sorta like issuing a tsunami warning in Kansas.

I fully informed Gareth of the perils of putting a card (which he possibly can't afford to burn?) in a non-conventional slot.
He needs to research the net(legwork) or go to dell to find out which cards people have said go straight into that motherboard and work inc 6200.

For you further information, having experienced in the past swapping out burnt cards and damaged motherboards (from peeps who thought they had read up about stuff)

Nearly all the cards back in the Nvidia 5000 series and earlier used to come with a warning that covered the Graphic card manufacturers in case of persons putting such cards in wrong keyed agp slot.

Card manufacturers such as (the then) infant chinese factories did not keep to agp specs either and keyed cards any-old-how!
Motherboards used to come with warnings about the wrong keyed graphic card being inserted causing permanent damage, to cover their derrieres too.