Requesting tips on building PCs

[FLaTLiN3D]

Thank you VERY VERY much everyone that has helped me, I'm off to do some researching as you suggested and shall return after a short period of time....

Regards,
FLaTLiN3D

 

[HMonk]

Great! Once you narrow things down to viable choices, it will be interesting/fun, for those who are interested, to tweak those choices based on their, ah . . . their, oh what's the word . . . oh yes, their biases (me too).

More importantly, collective scrutiny may be able to point out things missed or not anticipated. And do post back here with questions about specs, features, uses, "what's this mean," etc.: a forum is a dynamic FAQ.

Monk

 

[johnwillyums]

Hope we haven't put you off FLaTLiND3D. Where you at?

 

[HMonk]

Thank you VERY VERY much everyone that has helped me, I'm off to do some researching as you suggested and shall return after a short period of time....

Regards,
FLaTLiN3D

I trust/hope he is off researching.

Monk

 

[FLaTLiN3D]

Researching indeed. Swapping out old video and sound cards and reading up on Wikipedia about various types of hardware. I had no idea there were so many cables that do virtually the same job. I don't understand it but, meh. I currently need to go buy some SATA cables because I can't format this HDD without them. ... I do have one question at the moment, Intel or AMD? Does it really matter or is it simply a preference matter? Meaning are ALL Intel's incompatible with some systems so you must use AMD? Or is it simply the users favorite?

FLaTLiN3D

@John, Put me off? Never apart from handling weapons, computers are the only thing that seem to endlessly put me in awe. I have a feeling I'll be active on these forums for quite some time. You don't find this level of kindness and professional inputs in many places nowadays. I love it, even reserved a place in my quick launch for this community. Which is extremely rare.

@Monk, You continue to amaze me. I make an attempt to maintain a vast vocabulary, yet time and time again I find myself looking up some of the words you use. I love challenging the mind. It seems you've challenged mine more than once, and for that, I salute you.

 

[HMonk]

Hey, FlaTLin3D

As of this writing, there are very few apps that take advantage of four core processors; similarly, there are very few apps written for x64. Regardless, very few people use computers for the type of work that require the extraordinary capability offered by really high-end CPUs (e.g., serious number crunching, video editing). My bottom line: until I join NASCAR, I do not need a car with 750HP.

NEVER forget my early on advice: do not view components in the abstract or vacuum. What do I mean? You may come across a review or post that states, "You can't beat an i7! Why just look at those benchmarks." To me that's like saying my truck can go from 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. Who cares and why do they care? What is the pragmatic value of such a benchmark? As I noted above: none.

A computing system is just that: a system, all of whose parts must play well together. I prefer gfx quality and stability for gaming and AMD CPUs/mobos and ATi gfx cards are designed with each other in mind. Because of design limitations, ATi gfx cards in an XFire array are more versatile than NVIDIA in an SLI array. These are just some of the factors that influence my choosing AMD, which satisfy my ends and at a significantly cheaper cost than Intel. I could not care less that it may take my AMD system 6 seconds longer to boot to the DT than that of an i7.

I'm reminded of an incident when the SS United States first took to sea. On one occasion, She happened to cross paths with the Queen Mary, upon which Her Captain radioed the Captain of the Queen Mary noting that, by comparison, the Queen Mary was not very fast and couldn't keep up. The Captain of the Queen Mary radioed back, "We don't run with fast crowds." Where was I . . . ?

It may take you a while but by studying what's available and then considering your needs and your budget, save money by not buying high-end components that you will not benefit from and put it on higher-end components that will benefit you. Me, by saving on the CPU I bought a second gfx card.

Regarding compatibility, the CPU and mobo have to match, socket-to-socket. Each mfr will tell you what mobos your CPU is compatible with and, from there, you can look over the features of each and decide what you want. For example, how much and what type of RAM; integrated audio - whose; number and types of ports for external devices, etc. Differences abound.

In the end, you may find yourself faced with the question, which is better, Ford or Chevy? My answer (for me): all other things being equal, which has the features I want/need at the best price?

Oh, words I use, what words? I am out-of-place in a world dominated by colloquialisms and texting shorthand, having only recently divined the meaning of "OMG." I will endeavor to learn, however.

You are doing well in your research; keep it up and keep asking questions. Hopefully, others will pipe in with their thoughts on the AMD/Intel question.

Monk

 

[A Guy]

I'm no expert, but on the AMD/Intel question. Just generally you can build/buy an AMD PC for less. They can be, and often are, just as good or better than their Intel counterparts. It's often a matter of preference and/or who you get advice from. I personally have always had Intel, so I started there, I didn't go for the baddest boy on the block, but didn't go low end either. A similar build based on a AMD CPU would have probably been a couple of $100 cheaper. And tell the truth, would have probably suited me just as well. So all things being equal, you can probably go AMD, save a few bucks, and still get all the performance you need. A Guy

 

[johnwillyums]

Personally I'm an Intel/Nvidia guy. I've always used Intel CPUs with compatible motherboards which are also compatible with Nvidia graphics cards.

I agree with HMonk. There's not much point having a Ferrari to drive to the local shop.

But I've always tried to futureproof my machines.
I think the future is x64 multithreaded applications and Intel produce the fastest CPUs.
Similarly Nvidia have, until recently, generally been ahead of AMD (ATI) in the graphics card stakes.
However this has all changed relatively recently. Intel still make the best CPUs (imho) but AMD have overtaken Nvidia in terms of graphics cards.
ATI were the first to bring a DX11 card to market and have a range of them at all price points.
Nvidias latest "Fermi" cards are DX11 and theoretically they produce the fastest cards but they are very expensive and very hot. They require very efficient cooling. Many Nvidia fans are disappointed by them.

So AMD/ATI better value but not cutting edge fast. Intel/Nvidia, expensive and hot but very fast indeed.

Given that games using DX11 are only just appearing now (DX10 was a bit of a flop) it's hard to say what will happen.
The market seems to polarize between AMD/ATI and Intel/Nvidia and this is probably a crucial choice for you to begin with.

HMonk is right AMD/ATI probably represent the best bang for buck right now but I'm sticking with Intel/Nvidia.

You could spend a while researching this choice and it will affect your future upgrade path so take your time and keep asking questions, good luck

 

[HMonk]

@Johnwillyums: ATi, indeed beat NVIDIA to the street with a DX11 - the 5770 - but what a flop! Yeah, the 5770 uses less power, runs cooler, is smaller but it's about 20% slower than say the 4890 which is a real good card.

If I were building new and, if DX11 was a must (many really do not NEED it), I would wait, at least towards the end of the year, to see what ATi and NVIDIA seriously come up with rather than buy ha-ha-we-beat-you stuff.

Monk

 

[kucing13]

DX11 is important for gamers(like me ) and you need to get your hands on either Nvidia GTX or ATI 5xxx.

 

[HMonk]

DX11 is important for gamers(like me ) and you need to get your hands on either Nvidia GTX or ATI 5xxx.

I wonder why?

Gaming forums that I frequent, and most gamers with whom I converse, speculate on the future of gaming gfx and the role DX11 may play in overcoming the wall hit by DX9 and 10. Today, it seems that anyone minimally versed vis-à-vis DX11 is supersaturated with THE term de jour "tessellation," which I find most people never heard of. I say that not to impugn the (alleged) computer savvy of folks; I'm simply honoring reality.

At the present time, there are very few games available that avail themselves of DX11 capabilities. Depending on the source, about twice that number are reported to be in production and will be available within a year. With this in mind, I harken back to a consideration of deferring jumping on the latest and greatest bandwagon (1) because the bandwagon just left the barn and no one knows where it is going and, (2) the present bandwagon on which I am traveling provides me a most pleasant ride.

As the JPEG I attached indicates, the lowly DX10.1 capable 4890 generally embarrasses the 5850.

My continuing advice: wait 6-12 months, not only for DX11 improvements over the current generation, but also an increasing supply of DX11 games.

Monk

 

[kucing13]

DX11 is important for gamers(like me ) and you need to get your hands on either Nvidia GTX or ATI 5xxx.

I wonder why?

Gaming forums that I frequent, and most gamers with whom I converse, speculate on the future of gaming gfx and the role DX11 may play in overcoming the wall hit by DX9 and 10. Today, it seems that anyone minimally versed vis-à-vis DX11 is supersaturated with THE term de jour "tessellation," which I find most people never heard of. I say that not to impugn the (alleged) computer savvy of folks; I'm simply honoring reality.

At the present time, there are very few games available that avail themselves of DX11 capabilities. Depending on the source, about twice that number are reported to be in production and will be available within a year. With this in mind, I harken back to a consideration of deferring jumping on the latest and greatest bandwagon (1) because the bandwagon just left the barn and no one knows where it is going and, (2) the present bandwagon on which I am traveling provides me a most pleasant ride.

As the JPEG I attached indicates, the lowly DX10.1 capable 4890 generally embarrasses the 5850.

My continuing advice: wait 6-12 months, not only for DX11 improvements over the current generation, but also an increasing supply of DX11 games.

Monk

Thanks for the info monk. It's true that not many games are using DX11 ATM,maybe just some like metro 2033. And I'd say that most games still using DX10 and I couldnt see any different that much between 11 and 10 either. Just saying those as a long term plan .

 

[johnwillyums]

Agreed HMonk. I'm going to wait as long as it takes for things to become clear but I have the feeling that Nvidia will be the choice.
Also there's nothing I want to play at the moment that my XFX GTX 260 Black Edition cant handle well enough for me and I cant afford a card for a while anyway.
I'm hoping they will improve on the Fermi in terms of noise and heat and produce a sweet spot mid range card in about a year. By which time there will be enough games to make the upgrade justifiable.

With regard to the O.P. the Intel/Nvidia vs. AMD/ATI is probably the most crucial choice he has to make as everything else flows from that; mobo, case, cooling, PSU etc.

 

[HMonk]

@Kucing13

Long term plan good. Frankly, I find it rather daunting as I read various reviews and first hand experiences with DX11; a few rave, many don't notice much difference, and equally many say DX9 or 10 does better (usually better FPS).

I should think by year's end, early 2011, both ATi and NVIDIA should be out with, or at least have on the drawing board, solid cards.

Monk

 

[johnwillyums]

Our friend wants to build his pretty soon I suspect

 

[HMonk]

@Johnwillyums

Odd about the 260 noise isn't it; by now you'd think mfrs would be able to at least control noise levels.

Agree about affording cards. I am sure I am like many who sidestep the newly arrived "6xxx HD Super Dyno" in favor of the price drop on the "5xxx Dyno," which is almost as good as the 6xxx, but whose price was dropped when the 6xxx was released. I bet that 6-12 months will be worth the wait.

Monk

 

[HMonk]

Our friend wants to build his pretty soon I suspect

I think it's all about hormones: once they start flowing it's hard to turn them off. Been there, still experience that.

Monk

 

[johnwillyums]

Yes. Me too. No money right now and luckily there's nothing I really want at the moment.
Luckily software also gives me a buzz so I'm messing about trying to use Linux and looking forward to Google OS and the W8 leaks whenever they start

Midnight here, good night, J

 

[A Guy]

Our friend wants to build his pretty soon I suspect

I think it's all about hormones: once they start flowing it's hard to turn them off. Been there, still experience that.

Monk

I was just looking through Tom's Hardware one day...started speculating...and now my XP PC sits in a closet, and...you can see my specs . For me, the actual parts are cool, it's like car parts, has the same effect. Aluminum heads, headers, valve covers, drool ,lol. Good thing I only need one! A Guy

 

[HMonk]

Our friend wants to build his pretty soon I suspect

I think it's all about hormones: once they start flowing it's hard to turn them off. Been there, still experience that.

Monk

I was just looking through Tom's Hardware one day...started speculating...and now my XP PC sits in a closet, and...you can see my specs . For me, the actual parts are cool, it's like car parts, has the same effect. Aluminum heads, headers, valve covers, drool ,lol. Good thing I only need one! A Guy

For me it's a Harley - still riding after all these years and still looking for another place on which to hang yet another piece of chrome.

Monk