Switching To SSD Questions

[DamageIncM]

Hello,

I've had my current system for about a year now, so it's rather new.
Only I definitely found, looking into hardware and performance in the recent years, that HDDs are primitive.
Because the laggy performance is so pronounced, that it's really clear it holds back the rest of the system.
So, I'm interested in SSDs, of course, only here are a couple of questions:

First of all, if I only replace my system-drive, don't the remaining HDDs still hold back the performance?
Because I have programs installed on a different drive, since I basically just made a small partition for "C".
And I also have a whole separate HDD for games.
But I'm not familiar with how much "performance" programs and games use.
All I noticed in the 'Drives Meter'-gadget, is how the graph-line of the C-drive is often pushed to the max.

Then second, when I have an SSD, can I simply transfer or copy the C-drive exactly to the SSD,
then of course assign the drive-letter C to the SSD later on, and everything will simply work (but faster)?

And finally, would you be able to recommend a smaller SSD that is fast enough (so not record-breaking) but not too expensive?
I think I'll need one of 128GB, as some programs and games temporarily use space on it.
But if there's a size between 60 and 128 GB, I think that should work too.

Plus, also any tips on what technologies or specifications to look out for or avoid?
Because I've read about problems with the earlier SSD before, not sure if there are still issues with more current SSDs.
I'd rather avoid these kinds of issues than be surprised later and having to cope with them...


Here's an example: http://www.corsair.com/ssd/force-se...90gb-sata-3-6gbps-solid-state-hard-drive.html

This one looks good to me, and I found it for about 150 US Dollars including shipping.
But then, I have no idea if it's actually a good product, as I don't know what to look at.
I might just go with this one if it's a good choice. So any helpful answers are appreciated.


Greetings.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

You can clone your existing C to an SSD or you can make an image of your existing C and restore that image to the SSD. However, I'd guess most people do a clean install to the SSD.

Try to keep all applications and Windows on the SSD in order to take advantage of the SSD speed.

Install games to an HDD if you have to for space reasons. I don't game, but I understand that game loading will be slowed down by the HDD, but gaming performance is not affected.

HDDs will still restrict performance to the extent they are read from and written to, but the SSD will nonetheless significantly improve overall responsiveness of the system.

The current hot choices for SSDs appear to be the Crucial M4, Intel 320, and Samsung. Size depends on your personal situation, but a lot of people are using SSDs of 60 or 80 GB--for Windows and applications only. Data going on a separate spinning drive.

The important specification is 4-8 kb random write access. Brands do differ from each other, but they are ALL much faster than a standard spinning drive and you wouldn't be likely to notice major performance differences between SSD brands from the current generation. I'd pay more attention to reliability, support, and price.

 

[Wishmaster]

Agree with ignatzatsonic here but would like to throw in my 2cents in regards to gaming

The SSD will help games load a bit faster, but gameplay will be the same once loaded whether its on a SSD or HD. You will not gain or loose any FPS.
The SSD will only allow the game to load a second or 2 faster, which in many cases is not worth the space.

But, I have found that with having games on a seperate HD, and the OS/Apps on a SSD, they actually load a bit faster off that HD than they would with everything on the mechnical drive.

I think this is due to the fact that drive is just sitting idle with no other overhead and can focus soley on loading the game only. It doesn't need to deal with anything else and is a bit more responsive.

There are however, a handfull of a games where this is a bit different. Anything that is constantly streaming DATA on the fly can benefit in game from the SSD. The most common scenario are open world games that are loading the world as you move around.
Still, even if you have these type of games on thier own HD, performance will still be improved VS everything on a single drive.

The majority of games however, load a map or level, and thats it. its all from memory then.


In a nutshell, a large majority of games will show not show enough improement to justify the SSD space, aside from loading a second or so faster. They simply do not benefit to the extent the OS and programs do. Although, as mentioned, some games may benefit more than others.

If you can afford the SSD space for all your games, by all means go for it.
But, your better off using it for OS/APPS with games being a afterthought if budget allows. You wont miss much.

 

[DamageIncM]

Yeah, well the goal is just to get better general system-performance,
not to really get faster games or anything.
Although, one funny thing I read quite some time ago,
is that when they tested 'Assassin's Creed' on an SSD, the horses ran faster.
I'm not sure how to see this, as if the game runs at normal speed,
but only the horses faster than regular speed or what. But it's still funny...
To be honest, I think there are a fair share of games that would benefit from SSDs then.
'Assassin's Creed' is probably one of them.
Some others that definitely "stream-as-you-go" are 'Grand Theft Auto IV' and 'Far Cry 2'.
I do have these 3 specific titles.

But yes, they will probably only experience SSD-speeds at the time that SSDs are more of a standard.
I would just be happy when my computer finally stops lagging after every click to open something.
Loading a (large) file I can understand, but I don't need it to take forever when opening Explorer or Firefox or Winamp or name it.
Those moments are definitely times when the HDD suddenly becomes very active.
It's even lagging at this very moment, every time when I type and I hear the drive rattling, it freezes the typing. (I don't know what it does sometimes?...)
I'm tired of that, especially when having a very clean computer today in 2012. So yes: HDDs = old.

But anyway, so the C-drive on my current HDD can be copied directly to an SSD.
And yes, I'd like to do that because I think it would be a hassle to setup everything again,
like the many preferences and settings in Windows and many programs.

Have to make sure it has 4 to 8 kb of random write access.
Like the Corsair has "85k IOPS (4k aligned)", I guess that's good?

Nothing more than that though? Like the type of "controller" or anything?...


I just found something weird.
I found this one right: Force Series
And then I also found one that is like one "class" up, it's like the GT-version: Force Series
But look at the specifications, there is no difference, but the GT-version IS more expensive.
Am I missing something?

Also, as for the specifications, are "550 MB/s sequential read — 500 MB/s sequential write" good numbers?


Something else though:
Is this something to look at now I still have HDDs?: http://www.corsair.com/ssd/accelera...ator-series-45gb-solid-state-cache-drive.html
So it's a cache-drive rather than a SSD replacing the HDD, like it explains there.
Or is this just sort of a "hybrid" nonsense product and a waste of money?


Thanks for your replies.

 

[1Bowtie]

Another thing to think about is your motherboard controller, is it usb 3.0 capable then yes you will get 550 mb write speeds, but if your motherboard controller is only usb 2.0 capable then you will only get 300 mb write speeds. The later 3.0 SSD is backward compatible but you will only get the lower write speeds.

 

[carwiz]

One suggestion: Do your research on the manufacturer's SSD forums. Don't rely on third party reviews of disks when new. Also, there's a few "older" drives lingering in the market place for a reason--Nobody wants them or they're refurbished. I think you might change your mind about your current example.

 

[DamageIncM]

Another thing to think about is your motherboard controller, is it usb 3.0 capable then yes you will get 550 mb write speeds, but if your motherboard controller is only usb 2.0 capable then you will only get 300 mb write speeds. The later 3.0 SSD is backward compatible but you will only get the lower write speeds.

I don't get this. Because what does USB have to do with it?
I mean, no, my motherboard isn't 3.0-"capable", but when I put a PCI-card in it with 3.0 it is, isn't it?
Just like I had this old Pentium 4 Dell with USB 1.1 and I put a USB 2.0 card in it.

Doesn't the speed it can reach depend on the SATA-connection? The 300 and 600 thing?
I think my motherboard has SATA300 though. But couldn't this be changed with a PCI-card as well?
I think I've seen ones that have USB 3.0 on them for the outside and internal connectors for SATA600.
Like this: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Accessories/U3S6/
Only then I have to be honest, I'm not sure if it would still be limited by the fact that the native SATA on the motherboard is II or "300".
I would think it doesn't matter as it then goes through the PCI-bus...

One suggestion: Do your research on the manufacturer's SSD forums. Don't rely on third party reviews of disks when new. Also, there's a few "older" drives lingering in the market place for a reason--Nobody wants them or they're refurbished. I think you might change your mind about your current example.

Hm, OK. I'll keep that in mind.

Could you expand upon your suggestion to look for another one than the Corsair though?

 

[Britton30]

As Ignatz said the best choices are Crucial M4, Intel 320, and Samsung 830. I would stay away from and with the Sandforce controller which the newer Intels will have. Samsung has its own in house made controller and is very speedy all around.
I also would recommend a full clean install, you'll get the best performance with it even if a hassle. Remove all other drives when installing though. As a minimum I would suggest 60-64GB for your OS and move your user file and app data to another clean drive during install. If you want to have several much used apps, I'd suggest a 120-128 GB SSD to handle them. Here's an excellent tut by Kari for moving files during install. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorial...reate-move-during-windows-7-installation.html

 

[DamageIncM]

So I just got my first SSD today. I finally went with the OCZ Vertex 3, as many reviews are positive and consumers are very pleased with it as well.

Now, I just need to make it part of my computer.
But... So cloning the C-drive directly to the SSD should work, as was said before, but I don't get the following:

How does it work when changing the drive-letters?
I mean, I copy all the data from the C: on the HDD to the, I don't know, N: on the SSD.
I will probably use a program to be on the safe side, it would most likely verify if everything was copied correctly.
Only then, I will need to make the N:-drive into C: so the system will know to use that one as the main system-drive right?
But where and when do I do this? Because, if I'd simply do it in Windows, will it prompt me to restart since it's the system-drive?
Or does it have that capability to instantly switch? Which I have my doubts about, because what happens when there's nothing on the new C-drive?
Will it try to keep booting from nothing forever and ever?

This is really confusing, or maybe it's just the way I think it is and it will be a problem when you make an empty drive the C-drive.
Which I of course wouldn't do, but still, will it just instantly start using the new drive once I designated the letter to that drive, or even right after rebooting?

Or, will I even have to disconnect the HDD that had the Cartition on it first?
Thinking of it, maybe it will even be made clear to the system that C: will be moved to another location by the program I'll use?
I have EASEUS Partition Master, so would that work?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

If you use a cloning program and it works as advertised, the cloning process would mark the SSD as the active C drive. The old drive would no longer be C.

I don't know if EaseUS Partition Master has a clone capability---I'm not sure it does.

Macrium 5 has cloning capability. And probably certain versions of Acronis.

The other choices:

1: Make an image of the current C and restore that image to the SSD.

2: clean install to the SSD.

 

[DamageIncM]

If you use a cloning program and it works as advertised, the cloning process would mark the SSD as the active C drive. The old drive would no longer be C.

I don't know if EaseUS Partition Master has a clone capability---I'm not sure it does.

Macrium 5 has cloning capability. And probably certain versions of Acronis.

The other choices:

1: Make an image of the current C and restore that image to the SSD.

2: clean install to the SSD.

Well, EASEUS has a "copy"-function, which is probably the exact same thing.
I never used it before, I just used it for partitioning, but I guess it would just ask me what letter the copy should be?
I'm not sure if it would ask me and also if it would give the possibility to change the original C: to something else.
What I can do for now is just let it make a copy of C: to the SSD once I have it connected.

Here's another thing I found in EASEUS (from the online manual):

Set active

If you have several primary partitions, you must specify one to be the boot partition. As a rule, a disk can have only one active partition.


To set an active partition:
1. Select a primary partition to set as active from the list in the main window of EaseUS Partition Master.
2. Select Partitions -> Set active.
3. By clicking OK, you will add the pending operation of setting active partition.


Attention:
If you set a partition as active but there is another active partition on the disk, it will be unset automatically. This might also prevent your PC from booting.

 

[seavixen32]

You may find this tutorial useful: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/91339-ssd-hdd-optimize-windows-reinstallation.html

 

[DamageIncM]

I still haven't figured out how to make the cloned partition the partition used as the main C-drive...
It doesn't even appear I can make it do so... Partition Master won't let me change the letter of the System/Boot-drive.
And of course I can't assign C to another partition as it's already in use.
What's the way to do this?...

 

[whs]

Maybe that tutorial will give you some clues. http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/149969-ssd-install-transfer-operating-system.html

 

[seavixen32]

Did you read the tutorial I linked you to? It is very good.

 

[DamageIncM]

I'm sorry, thanks, but these tutorials don't have the answer.

All I need to know is, now that I have an exact copy of the original (old) C-drive on my SSD, how can I make the SSD to be C?...
Because I was told I could simply use a clone. Well, I have one. Now what?

I have already tried this: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Mark-a-partition-as-active

I set the partition on the SSD as "active", then I rebooted and set the SSD as the first drive.
But it doesn't boot. Even though according to that page it should read the OS from that partition. But most likely it doesn't work because it's not a C-drive yet.

 

[seavixen32]

I'm surprised as the tut is very well written.

However, you may need to run a startup repair to move the boot files to the SSD, as this tutorial explains.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/105541-startup-repair-run-3-separate-times.html

It's best to run it three times with a reboot between each attempt.

This tutorial shows you how to mark a partition as active.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/71432-partition-mark-active.html

And this one shows you how to mark a partition as inactive.

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/197157-partition-mark-inactive.html

 

[DamageIncM]

This is getting really confusing...

Do I need to do that Startup Repair thing?... Because, when I made an exact copy, don't I already have the exact thing needed to start the system as normally?

Also, why is the "inactivation"-tutorial described as "for when you made a partition active by accident"?
I thought that I would simply have to "deactivate" the old partition now and be done with it?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Cloning isn't foolproof.

It may have failed and you may never know how or why. You have a limited number of options to "fix" it. Startup Repair is at the top of the list.

You say you have an exact copy.

You may think so, but if you had a truly "exact" copy, you would be booting.

Depending on your patience and tolerance for frustration, your best move may be a clean install.

Or try imaging.

 

[DamageIncM]

Cloning isn't foolproof.

It may have failed and you may never know how or why. You have a limited number of options to "fix" it. Startup Repair is at the top of the list.

You say you have an exact copy.

You may think so, but if you had a truly "exact" copy, you would be booting.

Depending on your patience and tolerance for frustration, your best move may be a clean install.

Or try imaging.

The thing here is, I'm not saying it's failing to boot. I'm saying that I probably didn't set the right thing yet. I barely did anything...
I'm trying to dig out what the thing to do is. I just mean, like I said, I made a copy, now how do I test it?

As far as I know, the partition on the SSD isn't being used or seen as the boot-drive at all yet.
And if anything, it's probably because its letter is still not C.
I really just don't know what to do here.

All I was told multiple times throughout the last year or two was, when I'd finally get an SSD, I could copy the C-drive to the SSD and run it from there.
So I copied it, now how do I make the system actually USE the SSD?... Because it doesn't seem to fail because of what is on the SSD, it just seems to be wanting/expecting the original HDD to be there.
That's all I need to know really.