System Image Backup Strategies/Thoughts

[Victor S]

One more question, if this is not too much....

I created a repair/boot cd for my W7, but is there any easy way to do the same for XP....?

Thanks,
BBDS.

XP doesn't have it's own imaging utility, if that's what you're after.
I used Ghost for XP imaging, but others work for it. Don't know about Macrium, as I haven't used it.

 

[boyboyds]

One more question, if this is not too much....

I created a repair/boot cd for my W7, but is there any easy way to do the same for XP....?

Thanks,
BBDS.

XP doesn't have it's own imaging utility, if that's what you're after.
I used Ghost for XP imaging, but others work for it. Don't know about Macrium, as I haven't used it.

OK, Thanks. I also have Norton Ghost but it is sooooo difficult to use.
But I guess with XP we have no other option.

I purchased an internal HDD and 3 years ago created a full XP bootable image.
But how to keep it current - keep imaging every month....?
Ghost is not the kind of product I want to touch every month.

Thanks,
BBDS

 

[Brds7t7]

One more question, if this is not too much....

I created a repair/boot cd for my W7, but is there any easy way to do the same for XP....?

Thanks,
BBDS.

XP doesn't have it's own imaging utility, if that's what you're after.
I used Ghost for XP imaging, but others work for it. Don't know about Macrium, as I haven't used it.

OK, Thanks. I also have Norton Ghost but it is sooooo difficult to use.
But I guess with XP we have no other option.

I purchased an internal HDD and 3 years ago created a full XP bootable image.
But how to keep it current - keep imaging every month....?
Ghost is not the kind of product I want to touch every month.

Thanks,
BBDS

Macrium Free will work fine on XP and you are able to create a Macrium Rescue Disc to restore images and has a few other utilities like fixing the Master Boot Record.

 

[Victor S]

boyboyds,
I always found Ghost easy to use. On XP I used the boot floppy you can create to do my imaging/restore. Think that was Ghost 4. Once I created the floppy I removed all the Symantec utilities that came with Ghost, except for the image browser and the piece needed to create the boot floppy.
Pretty sure they were simple executables. Ghost 15 for Win 7 requires a recovery CD instead of a floppy, and takes a bigger footprint to keep on the PC for making a new recovery CD or browsing/recovering data from images. 287mb. I live with it.
Don't have to, because I made 2 recovery CD's and never browse or recover files from images anymore. But it's a drop in the bucket, and I don't want to reinstall it if/when I need the functions.
There are a few parameters that Ghost allows you to set, but I don't recall any of them being too confusing. The default setting should work. I always turn off the "verify" option, but I do make 2 separate images. "Verify" is a lengthy process.
Just try the default settings and test it. CAUTION: Test with a blank HD so you don't lose a system or data.
Anyway, if you don't like Ghost, somebody here should be able to set you up with Macrium if it does XP, which I'm guessing it does.

 

[boyboyds]

boyboyds,
I always found Ghost easy to use. On XP I used the boot floppy you can create to do my imaging/restore. Think that was Ghost 4. Once I created the floppy I removed all the Symantec utilities that came with Ghost, except for the image browser and the piece needed to create the boot floppy.
Pretty sure they were simple executables. Ghost 15 for Win 7 requires a recovery CD instead of a floppy, and takes a bigger footprint to keep on the PC for making a new recovery CD or browsing/recovering data from images. 287mb. I live with it.
Don't have to, because I made 2 recovery CD's and never browse or recover files from images anymore. But it's a drop in the bucket, and I don't want to reinstall it if/when I need the functions.
There are a few parameters that Ghost allows you to set, but I don't recall any of them being too confusing. The default setting should work. I always turn off the "verify" option, but I do make 2 separate images. "Verify" is a lengthy process.
Just try the default settings and test it. CAUTION: Test with a blank HD so you don't lose a system or data.
Anyway, if you don't like Ghost, somebody here should be able to set you up with Macrium if it does XP, which I'm guessing it does.

I have Ghost 14.0 and I remember it was tricky to figure out if the new HDD needs to be formatted or not, also constant disc error messages. Maybe I just need to do it few more times to get comfortable. I remember I succeeded eventually, but it was a long and painful night.

Thank you for your reply,
BBDS

 

[Victor S]

I have Ghost 14.0 and I remember it was tricky to figure out if the new HDD needs to be formatted or not, also constant disc error messages. Maybe I just need to do it few more times to get comfortable. I remember I succeeded eventually, but it was a long and painful night.

You might be better off going with the Macrium option for Win 7, because I remember there was some question about Ghost 14 working well with Win 7.
Up to you to read about the issues, which might only have to do with warnings on the install of Ghost.
I went directly to Ghost 15 when I moved from XP to Win 7, and have had no issues at all. It got it pretty cheap, maybe 15 bucks, and I saw recently that it was coming free with a HD purchase at Newegg.
Keep in mind I only do system partition images, and always restore to the same size partition, so I might not get the same partitioning prompts you do.
I'm not an expert with Ghost. You'll find more expertise here with Macrium than I have with Ghost, but if you do end up with Ghost 15 I can probably offer guidance on that.

 

[F5ing]

Or freeware Clonezilla. OS agnostic (for the most part). Works with many file systems. Bare metal. Clone or image.

No hot, only cold images (must use bootable CD or USB for both copy/restore). And you must use other software to view/restore individual files from the image (I've never run across a true need there).

Hundred+ restores/clones, probably close to a thousand images, never a failure.

I had tested (thoroughly in my mind) four or five different freeware programs quite a few years ago, and although all restored properly, I settled on Clonezilla. It was the most versatile and complete. For a while I used one or two additional apps when making a clone just to be sure. Last 3 or 4 years it's only Clonezilla, with an occassional test.

Don't even have to test on my own machines. I use it all the time when fixing other's machines.

If you try it you can just use the default settings and it'll work, but you'll have to make sure you understand the source and target terminology (linux-based).

 

[boyboyds]

I will give Ghost another chance for my XP.

But as I get deeper into the imaging issue, my next challenge is reducing the C: partition without losing data.

Any advice.....?

Thanks,
BBDS

 

[kado897]

Yes. Leave the User structure as it is on your C drive. Move your data onto another partition/drive divided up into whatever categories you like then tie it all together by including the data folders in the appropriate libraries.

 

[boyboyds]

Yes. Leave the User structure as it is on your C drive. Move your data onto another partition/drive divided up into whatever categories you like then tie it all together by including the data folders in the appropriate libraries.

I have 250gig on my C drive and 250gig on my D drive.

I want to reduce C drive to 50gig and expand D drive to 450gig.

.....also another question .....

I do not think I can boot into Windows through USB, but can I create Ghost Image through USB...?

I guess I need to understand all the steps to get it working on a regular basis.



Thanks,
BBDS.

 

[kado897]

You have a similar problem that I had about a year ago. I got myself a 2TB drive for my data and Images of C and did what I said above. I left the user structure as is because it is more hassle to move it. I now have about 60GB on my C drive of which about 1GB is what you could class as data plus about 2GB in the hidden AppData folder and 450GB of data on the new drive which is linked into the library structure so it can be accessed seamlessly. I chose to leave some data on the C drive because I am using a laptop and when I'm away from base the data drive is disconnected. I now have a separate 2TB drive for backups of both C and the data. I still keep one image of C on the data drive just in case.

 

[F5ing]

A few more things to keep in mind:

Imaging apps typically include the ability to exclude the hibernate and pagefile. This can shave many GB's from the size of your image.

Remember that your restore points and recycle bin contents will be included. You may wish to reduce their size allocation.

Your imaging app may also have the ability to utilize different levels of compression for the image size. Max compression (but takes the longest) may cut image size in half.

Also consider the contents of the various temp folders.

I wouldn't do any moving of the "installed" program files. You would want to keep them all included with your OS not only for operability but also for inclusion into the images you make.

The method described by kado897 for moving user data and linking via a libraries makes it seamless to the OS and is easy to do (likely the easiest way). For the XP machine you'll likely have to relocate the folders themselves (via the folder properties) as XP doesn't provide for libraries.

When evaluating what size your OS/apps partition should be, consider the possibilty of future app installs. You want to make sure there is always adequate free space for the OS/NTFS to do their work (true for any partition but particularly the one containing the OS/apps). Most imaging apps offer the option to include or exclude free space in the image.

 

[boyboyds]

Thank you all, I really looking forward to imaging and backing up on a regular basis.

BBDS.

 

[Victor S]

Thank you all, I really looking forward to imaging and backing up on a regular basis.

BBDS.

One more thing. Until you're comfortable with restores, test restoring with a blank HD. Might seem cumbersome, but you can guarantee you won't lose your OS or data.
Even if you have to buy a small external HD, it's worth it, and you can use that drive for storage after you're comfortable with your process.
This is all assuming you do cold imaging.
In fact, the safest way to begin is to unplug your OS drive while first testing restores.
I always did that with initial testing, but I've also always had a case that made it easy to do.
I don't care how "good" you are, mistakes can be made.
So basically, you'll have your bootable OS made from an image on the test drive before you plug your "permanent" HD back in to restore an image there.
You've got yourself covered well.
I just don't want you messing anything up. It's fairly easy to do.
There's a thread in the install section now where a guy hammered his data volume doing an install. What happens is you get a different view of your HD's from recovery or install CD than you get from Win 7 disk management screens, and all kinds of partitioning/formatting options, so plenty of opportunity to screw up.
Sure, you might be able to move data around to get a blank test drive, up to you.
But the safest way to test restores is a on a blank drive.
Doesn't matter then what you try with partitioning or anything else, because whatever goes wrong, you've still got your original working OS on the permanent drive.
Might seem overkill to some, but I'm cautious, and never lost an OS, or data.
Well, except once, when I accidentally turned on RAID in the BIOS of a new MB.
But I don't want to talk about that.

 

[Victor S]

How big are your Sysprepped images usually then Victor? I'm getting a bit low on space lately and going to have to add another external HDD soon. Worth it though.

Burdus77,

Ignore my last "speculation" about sysprep not making an image very much smaller.
I just made an image, sysprepped the OS, and made an image of that.

Image sizes are,
15.7 GB (16,859,004,928 bytes) - original
13.7 GB (14,793,834,496 bytes) - sysprepped

That surprised me, that drivers would add up to 2gb, but I restored a different PC with the sysprepped image and it worked fine. The size of that system ended up close to the original after Win 7 installed the drivers.

 

[F5ing]

This is all assuming you do cold imaging.
In fact, the safest way to begin is to unplug your OS drive while first testing restores.
I always did that with initial testing, but I've also always had a case that made it easy to do.
I don't care how "good" you are, mistakes can be made.
So basically, you'll have your bootable OS made from an image on the test drive before you plug your "permanent" HD back in to restore an image there.
You've got yourself covered well.
I just don't want you messing anything up. It's fairly easy to do.
There's a thread in the install section now where a guy hammered his data volume doing an install. What happens is you get a different view of your HD's from recovery or install CD than you get from Win 7 disk management screens, and all kinds of partitioning/formatting options, so plenty of opportunity to screw up.

Very informative and helpful post Victor S. Dealing with new software and the terms used for the actions they perform can be relatively easily dealt with as long as you make sure you are fully familiar with your storage hardware. As mentioned, when doing cold imaging/cloning you're not running the OS you usually run, where you become familiar with how it represents your storage spaces.

The more you know about your storage drives (make/model/serial/size), their partitions/volumes (size/filesystem type/volume label), and exactly where your data resides (OS/apps/personal), the better off you'll be.

Using Windows based imaging software will make it a little easier ensuring you correctly identify your storage Other software will require that you have a more complete knowledge of the details of your drives/partitions. The other software just conforms to a different standard to show you the same representation as the Windows based software does. But it's not that hard to learn that standard and in some ways it even make more sense than the way Windows represents it.

The thing is you've got to make sure you've selected the correct source and target before making or restoring an image. If you're not sure, step back and figure it out before any writing gets done by the app.

Bottom line I think the safest way to get started is as Victor S stated: use a blank hard disk that you can use for testing to ensure that it works as you expect. I think it's better to use a somewhat larger disk, as some imaging software will require restore target partition be as large as the one that was imaged. You won't regret having the extra free space anyway.

You would not believe how much more comfortable/confident you'll feel about it when you witness the success of your first foolproof test!

 

[F5ing]

How big are your Sysprepped images usually then Victor? I'm getting a bit low on space lately and going to have to add another external HDD soon. Worth it though.

Burdus77,

Ignore my last "speculation" about sysprep not making an image very much smaller.
I just made an image, sysprepped the OS, and made an image of that.

Image sizes are,
15.7 GB (16,859,004,928 bytes) - original
13.7 GB (14,793,834,496 bytes) - sysprepped

That surprised me, that drivers would add up to 2gb, but I restored a different PC with the sysprepped image and it worked fine. The size of that system ended up close to the original after Win 7 installed the drivers.

I wonder if some of that difference could be due to lack of data imaged from the System Volume Information folder (System Restore).

 

[boyboyds]

Will a rescue disc boot up a new blank HDD.....?

The reason I ask is that it did not work for me today using Macrium rescue disc.

Thanks,
BBDS

 

[Brds7t7]

Hi boyboyds, which version Macrium are you using? And are you using the WinPE disc or Linux disc?

There was a problem with the last version of Macrium not having a working boot disc. It's been fixed in the newest version. I had the same problem. Tried to boot and didn't work.

If your version is 5.0.4620 that's the version with the issue and you need to update it.

If that's not the issue you may need to format your drive if it hasn't yet been done.

 

[boyboyds]

I was wondering why not just clone the entire drive C to a separate internal HDD.......

...and then re-clone it every month.....?

This way you do not need the rescue/boot disc and the spare HDD is ready to go any time.

I assume imaging/restore process is faster because it creates images incrementally every time.....?

But are there any other advantages...?

Thanks,
BBDS