Solved Win8 upgrade experience

[Indianatone]

OK so let me get this right. I have Seven on an SSD and 8.1 on a spinner drive. They are separate and one should not know about the other except for boot entries and 8.1 is deleting and interfering with 7? I do not use that shadow copy except for back ups with Macrium. Is my 7 install OK or do I need to read up on this?

 

[DavidE]

I have Restore Points turned off in Win 7, I turned them off a long time because I use (and trust) System Backup Images.
So I can't say for sure Win 8 will delete Win 7 Restore Points.
I have System Restore turned on in Win 8 as I've been testing and checking things ...
I can say for sure Booting Win 7 will delete Win 8 Restore Points.

You can test it by:
- Create a Win 7 Restore Point (or make sure you have some)
- Boot up Win 8
- Shut down Win 8
- Boot up Win 7
- See if you still have Restore Point(s)

It doesn't really matter if they are on separate drives.
Can you see the other OS drive in Windows Explorer and/or Disk Management ?

 

[Boozad]

If W8 does delete 7's Restore Points, it hasn't been doing it to mine.

 

[Slartybart]

Yea Bing desktop/ Bing bar and Silverlight are all optional updates I passed on no different than win-7,
All other optional updates got loaded though and of course important ones
Interesting I came up with a blank on top right/ search all,
All I got was search online ?

That is odd. Just to be sure, you mean the Start menu search, right?

I modified the image to include the Search icon - it isn't a tweak, just shopped it with Gimp



What do you have set for Search options?

Open an explorer window,
maximize the ribbon (untick minimize the ribbon)
select the view "tab"

(you might want to add options to the quick access toolbar - right click options)

click options (far right) (or that tiny icon on the title bar, near "file"
then click change folder and search options
you know where to go after that

I only have System files ticked.

There's probably some other Search settings, you might want to check EF tutorials.

 

[Slartybart]

While I was resetting the machine to "just the way I like it" and resolving issues I created by experimenting with a user profile not on C: - the machine became severely fragmented - 33%, and I noticed that I lost about 4GB.

I wasn't doing anything drastic... changing icons on shortcuts, changing permissions on same shortcuts...
I notices that some of my start menu shortcuts no longer worked (nope, these were not the shortcuts I changed permissions and icons - - Skype and MS store launch, but do nothing!)

The pagefile had grown (there's the "missing" space) and it was also what was fragmented.

I have 6 GB ram - I'm setting a initial (3072) and maximum (4098) pagefile. In other words, I'm not going to let Windows manage the pagefile. There's plenty of discussion about pagefile.... and I've played with it on many systems.

Windows recommends 3962 for my system and it is currently pegged at 5632.
It was 1600 before the fragmentation.

If you're not comfortable messing around with pagefile, just let Windows manage it. Both too small or too large have performance issues.

 

[SIW2]

I don't use the system restore program.

However shadow copies are very useful. They are not the same thing.

 

[Slartybart]

Seems as though every time I login, the disk is fragmented 3-5% according to Defraggler (MS defrag flashes though the operation). This reminds me of days long gone and better forgotten.

I'm going to move on to other system "optimizations" and see what Black Viper has on 8.1 Services.
http://www.blackviper.com/service-configurations/black-vipers-windows-8-1-service-configurations/

I used his excellent work as a reference to "tune" my Win7 system. There are scripts, but each machine is different and results will vary. I think it's better to select the services manually and determine the startup type (or disable/enable state).

UPnP and it's companions, and TCPIP helper (NetBIOS) are two that I recall off the top of my head that I don't use and can safely disable.

There are a bunch more that I have no need to have running, but you might so I won't list those. A lot of it depends on how you use networks.

 

[ThrashZone]

Interesting assessment I've personally never had any issues with windows system restore,
Don't use it but did use system cleanup to get rid of all but the last before shrinking my C-drive for win-8 partition,
Defrag was at 5% from 2% but shrinking it just increased the fragmentation which I;m running now,
I'll check out what's up with the 8 side later,
Cheers for the heads up

 

[lehnerus2000]

Maybe if you move the Pagefile to a different partition you will experience less fragmentation.

I have my W7 Pagefile and Linux Mint Swap partitions on different HDDs from the operating systems.
My XP pagefile is on a RAM disk.

 

[RealPetChicken]

I was getting used to windows 8 but it wasn't playing nice with a new pc I built. Oh well.

 

[gregrocker]

What advantages does Win8 really have over WIn7?

My experience with installing it a dozen times is that its ugly, the start screen is useless unless you want to pretend you're a phone, the crApps won't shut off and if you install a Start menu it still defaults to all the crApps. So by the time I get everything sorted its really worn out its welcome in my Dual Boot and I delete it.

I do not see it being faster at all. An SSD is fast. The Explorer copy graph is cool and would be welcome in the overdue SP2 for Win7.

 

[Slartybart]

Maybe if you move the Pagefile to a different partition you will experience less fragmentation.

I have my W7 Pagefile and Linux Mint Swap partitions on different HDDs from the operating systems.
My XP pagefile is on a RAM disk.

That's how I get a contiguous page file - move it, cleanup the drive, move it back. I've played around with agefiles long time ago and found that the page file does best on the boot drive between the OS and the Apps. Trying to keep it that way or redoing it every time I installed or upgraded was more trouble than it was worth.

Funny thing... I don't recall Win7 pagefile fragmenting much. but I had a static size on that. I'll see how Win8 plays with what I have now and try your suggestion if the pagefile continues to be fragmented beyond what I expect. This is a fairly new install (4 days) so it might take a while for Windows to optimize itself.

I just evaluated Lucid Puppy, Peppermint, and Linux Mint Mate. Peppermint wouldn't boot on my machine and Lucid Puppy wouldn't load some drivers. Mint Mate worked beautifully, but it's much larger.

Are you saying that you have Win Page and Linux Swap each on different parts or are you saying that both are not on the boot part, but on the same part? Curiosity only

Thanks

Bill
.

 

[SIW2]

@Greg,

I don't think they are claiming any advantage. It is just something a bit different to have a play with for a little while.

Far too annoying for long term use.

 

[ThrashZone]

@Greg,

I don't think they are claiming any advantage. It is just something a bit different to have a play with for a little while.

Far too annoying for long term use.

It's difficult to have an opinion if I never used win.8.1....
But for the most part it's just another toy I have disk space so I said what the heck win-8 was a freebie so there's really no out of pocket thanks for that Robin and Brink for the setup tutorials

One very odd thing is If I'm coming from win-7 and boot to win-8 it's very fast,
Coming from win-8 and booting to win-7 it's very slow,
Win-8 boot manager looks to me to be much slower than win-7 boot manager,
I did run system cleanup on the win-8 side and that got rid of allot of update files did defrag too,
So hopefully that will change,
Out for a few days so this weekend I'll be able to test more,
Cheers.

 

[Slartybart]

What advantages does Win8 really have over WIn7?

My experience with installing it a dozen times is that its ugly, the start screen is useless unless you want to pretend you're a phone, the crApps won't shut off and if you install a Start menu it still defaults to all the crApps. So by the time I get everything sorted its really worn out its welcome in my Dual Boot and I delete it.

I do not see it being faster at all. An SSD is fast. The Explorer copy graph is cool and would be welcome in the overdue SP2 for Win7.

@Greg,

I don't think they are claiming any advantage. It is just something a bit different to have a play with for a little while.

Far too annoying for long term use.

@Greg,

I don't think they are claiming any advantage. It is just something a bit different to have a play with for a little while.

Far too annoying for long term use.

It's difficult to have an opinion if I never used win.8.1....
But for the most part it's just another toy I have disk space so I said what the heck win-8 was a freebie so there's really no out of pocket thanks for that Robin and Brink for the setup tutorials

One very odd thing is If I'm coming from win-7 and boot to win-8 it's very fast,
Coming from win-8 and booting to win-7 it's very slow,
Win-8 boot manager looks to me to be much slower than win-7 boot manager,
I did run system cleanup on the win-8 side and that got rid of allot of update files did defrag too,
So hopefully that will change,
Out for a few days so this weekend I'll be able to test more,
Cheers.

Greg,

Si is correct, I started this thread as a post-mortem on updrating to Win8, nothing more.

I expressed my opinion on some things (no start menu - OMG!) but there isn't any Win8 advocacy or evangelism intended - just recording my experience.

Mike also has a valid point - how can any member come to their own conclusions and build an opinion on Win8 unless they try it.

I really don't see much difference between Win8 and Win7 - sure you have those crApps that bug me, but I don't use them. The desktop applications can be installed and they seem to run fine.

There are always detractors with any new Windows (except 1 -> 3 ... everyone liked that change )
(DOS -> Win3; 95 -> 98; 98 -> 2000, mill, or XP; XP -> Vista; XP -> Win7; Vista -> Win7)

The base OS hasn't changed all that much since Vista, but the GUI sure has.

There are things I like about Win8 and some things I don't like, but it's just an operating system.

Now I'll return to recording my experience updrading to Win8.

 

[Slartybart]

My external HD (Seagate GoFlex Desk 2 TB) goes to "sleep"

This was also an issue on Win7 when I first connected the drive. This really drags down performance when the drive has to "wake" up. I have Libraries locations on that drive, so the delay is very noticeable.

I don't recall what I changed to improve the disk up time (or prevent it from sleeping), but here are the steps I do remember
Seagate Dashboard - do not sleep
-> can't use on 8.1 (not for this OS @ install)
Win 7 / 8 - adjust power plan (never power down disk, sleep after 30 minutes, USB selective suspend=disabled)

I looked through the event logs (new Dev mgr tab takes you directly to the event log), but haven't found anything useful.

Can't think of anything else.

 

[DavidE]

So they don't have a new version of Seagate Dashboard that works with 8.1 ?

 

[lehnerus2000]

3 HDDs

I just evaluated Lucid Puppy, Peppermint, and Linux Mint Mate. Peppermint wouldn't boot on my machine and Lucid Puppy wouldn't load some drivers. Mint Mate worked beautifully, but it's much larger.

On my PC, Linux Mint MATE's overall size (~8 GB) is much smaller than Windows 7 (~22 GB).
Both are 64 bit and those sizes include software.

I do have more programs in Windows, but the total size is only ~6 GB.

Are you saying that you have Win Page and Linux Swap each on different parts or are you saying that both are not on the boot part, but on the same part? Curiosity only

I have 3 HDDs:

• (1.5 TB) 3 x OS + other partitions
• (2.0 TB) Linux Swap + other partitions
• (2.0 TB) W7 Pagefile + other partitions

The Swap file and Pagefiles have their partitions solely devoted to those functions.

 

[DavidE]

I was curious so I clicked on Maps in the Start Screen to see it ...
Now I cannot get Map.exe to stop running, and it also runs RuntimeBroker.exe
I unpinned it from Start, killed the process, but when I reboot it runs again.
How can I get this freaking program to not run all the time ?
I can't find it anywhere in Startup items - Task Manager, AutoRuns, ...
It's now listed as suspended in Process Explorer

View attachment 321936

It seems when you open an App Windows keeps the process active (suspended) in case you want to go back to it.
Windows will close it when it feels like it ...
I opened the Metro Help and App Store last night out of curiosity.
14 hours later and I still have these apps listed in Process Explorer (suspended).
I closed them last night.
This morning I woke the PC and noticed a new icon on my Taskbar.
It was the App Store - clicking it took me to the Metro App Store window.

 

[Slartybart]

So they don't have a new version of Seagate Dashboard that works with 8.1 ?

Win8 yes... downloaded and tried it

I don't know why or see a reason for that not to work other than the test for the install is just wrong.

Dashboard didn't have many settings and seemed more like bloatware than anything else anyway. But I did have that one setting I thought might affect this issue.

I'll see if there's a new firmware update on Seagate, but I'm fairly certain it's a Windows setting.
Sleep, spin down drive, USB suspend, Drive policy....can't find the one I'm looking for.

The driver is std Windows 6/21/06, but has a 6.3.9600 version tacked on.

Thanks

Bill
.