Copying oddity

[The111]

I have a personal habit, whenever I am about to re-format my OS drive, I copy every single directory and file off of it, to an external HDD. So that after I have installed the new OS, I can dig back through the old one for any configuration files, etc, that I need to manually recover and stick back where they need to be.

So, I have been using 7 RC for a while. And I just got my party pack (woo!) with retail in it. I want to format my drive, obviously.

So, I revealed hidden folders and everything (as I always do when I do this), selected all on C drive, and then tried to copy to external drive. Well, for some reason it keeps only copying a small portion of the root folders (either first 10 or last 10 when there are about 50 total) and then just stopping as if it is finished. All in all only transfering about 5GB data when there is 50GB I need. It just doesn't even attempt to copy most of the folders and items I am dragging. WTF? Try it out and see for yourself...

 

[The111]

Alternately, it tells me that my 50GB of data is 232GB large and cannot fit on the external drive I am copying to. LOL.

 

[Night Hawk]

Have you tried the Windows Easy Transfer tool? For a test of that a temp install of the 7 RC was seen on an extra drive where the backup made was then restored completely.

That included custom folders as well as the usual user account folders and even things like the wallpapers set with the DisplayFusion program for dual monitors. As the restoration was inprogress the default desktop stretched across from the primary to secondary display suddenly saw the same two separate wallpapers set as they had been.

The compression of some 232gb was down to about 95-98gb total. For going from RC to retail however you wouldn't want to be restoring programs but seeing fresh installs of each for the obvious reasons. But you can pick and choose which files and folders are archived for restoration later once you have the retail installation up and running properly.

For running out of space and seeing more then you bargained for as far as size you have to remember that folders contain sub folders within sub folders where some are not visible by default. You have to calculate the actual size of each once you have taken ownership and made hidden files and folders visible.

You may inadvertently included restore points along with the folders you selected which would also explain why certain files seemed much larger then you assumed.

 

[logicearth]

Is it possible you are copying over the entire C drive? Including all the junctions and hardlinked files/folders? There is also an issue with permissions, you may not have the permissions required to copy a file/folder.

 

[The111]

Have you tried the Windows Easy Transfer tool? For a test of that a temp install of the 7 RC was seen on an extra drive where the backup made was then restored completely.

I am not sure what you mean by that second sentence, but I don't need any special tools to back up data folders directly.

The compression of some 232gb was down to about 95-98gb total. For going from RC to retail however you wouldn't want to be restoring programs but seeing fresh installs of each for the obvious reasons.

Again, I'm not sure what you mean by that first sentence. I am not "restoring programs" but simply configuration files. For example, here is a list of things I save when I go to a new OS install:

internet favorites
game cfg's
game saves
photoshop cfg's and actions
firefox cfg's
EVEREST cfg's

The list goes on. I used to manually grab things one by one before formatting the drive, but I risk forgetting something. So since I have tons of external storage, I just like to copy the WHOLE thing and pick and choose what I want to save from it at a later date.

For running out of space and seeing more then you bargained for as far as size you have to remember that folders contain sub folders within sub folders where some are not visible by default. You have to calculate the actual size of each once you have taken ownership and made hidden files and folders visible.

I do understand how folders work... and I know the total size of the data I wanted to transfer was 50GB. However, I found the cause of the "data too big" dilemma. I have a folder buried down in my TF2 installation for recording demos which I mapped to an external drive. Apparently it was trying to copy that entire external drive as a subfolder, although it didn't include it in my size calcs when I did "properties" on the top parent folder. Tricky.

 

[The111]

Is it possible you are copying over the entire C drive? Including all the junctions and hardlinked files/folders? There is also an issue with permissions, you may not have the permissions required to copy a file/folder.

As I mentioned above, it had to do with an external drive mapped to a "folder" on my C drive.

However, there are still certain folders on my C drive I can't copy. Some I can't even open. Like "Documents and Settings" for example. It has a lock symbol and I cannot open it. I am not sure why that folder even exists since it sounds like a remnant of XP, since Vista/7 use "Users" folder instead. However, regarding permissions, how is it possible that as an ADMINISTRATOR on my own computer there are certain folders I cannot access? How does that make any sense? Besides "Documents and Settings" there is also one other folder "System Volume Information" which I am denied access to. I really don't care what's in there, but on principle, how can I be denied access to the contents of my own disk?

 

[logicearth]

Administrator is not the full powerful user group as you think it is. SYSTEM account is what has root power. System Volume Information contains system sensitive files there is nothing in there you actually need to see or copy. As for Document and Settings folder it is but a junction to the Users folder. Review the permissions assigned to this folder, the "Everyone" account is listed with a single DENY permission. This folder is best discarded along with the rest of the junctions.

 

[Night Hawk]

Another thing to ask here would be just how large is the external drive as well as how much actual free space is now available on it in order to see a rather large backup. If you are going with the Ultimate edition the system image for the RC would present a large problem trying to restore that on a clean install of the finished retail 7 for a start.

With multiple drives here the option of regular backups eliminates worry about losing files and running into problems later since files are stored in separate custom folders and sub folders for further separation of file types, utilities, system and hardware updates, etc. there.

For simply copying entire folders of all types from C onto the external drive I have to agree with logicearth about running into immediate problems of all sorts. Think back to how you would save files and data out of the Windows.old folder to get an idea of what you would be able to save.

The Windows Easy Transfer tool also saves settings as well as the files and folders selected. But the retail 7 will obviously be working with several changes made including the system registry itself.

 

[The111]

For simply copying entire folders of all types from C onto the external drive I have to agree with logicearth about running into immediate problems of all sorts. Think back to how you would save files and data out of the Windows.old folder to get an idea of what you would be able to save.

There are no problems with this... I've been doing it like this for years. The only files which I am going to "harvest" out of the backed up folder are OS agnostic files like .cfg's. I don't even know what a Windows.old folder is... I'm guessing it's something that comes from doing a Windows "upgrade"... but I always format and do clean installs.

 

[The111]

Administrator is not the full powerful user group as you think it is. SYSTEM account is what has root power. System Volume Information contains system sensitive files there is nothing in there you actually need to see or copy. As for Document and Settings folder it is but a junction to the Users folder. Review the permissions assigned to this folder, the "Everyone" account is listed with a single DENY permission. This folder is best discarded along with the rest of the junctions.

Yes you are right, there is a single deny permission for Everyone... but my admin account has identical permissions to the system account (nothing denied), and I cannot access the folder with the admin account. Even the everyone account has "read" permissions to it.

Assuming there is something I could do with a system account but not an admin, how do I become system?

 

[logicearth]

Deny permissions have priority over Allow permissions. "Everyone" well of course, affects every account and setting a Deny permission on it, does so for everyone regardless of Allow permissions the current user has. Even the SYSTEM account would be denied. You do not become SYSTEM nor do you need to.

Instead of copying everything over, be selective about it. Only copy over things that make sense to keep. For example there is no point in copying Program Files, ProgramData, Windows, etc. In perfect situations all the files you should could about should be in Users.

 

[Night Hawk]

Selective is the key word there! When going to set up a new clean install of Windows you will also be starting off with an entirely new system registry especially when moving up from the RC to the final retail product. Why would you want to copy the RC registry which will be utterly useless? The program folders on the existing RC installation would be useless as well since you will be starting off all over again fresh.

Certain select files found in your account like documents and saved work from applications would be things to manually backup and be able to reuse once the new fresh installs of the same programs are seen again on the retail version. Wallpapers, theme(custom mainly), IE favorites, and other things user controlled along with any unreplacable items like family photos in the My Pictures folder are certainly the things to consider.

For folder program installers will create again copying to save those and not simply things like game saves, docs, etc. would be a waste of valuable space on the external for reasons like that. Apparently you are thinking about the old 9X clan of versions where entire folders were copied by one dos command while the newer versions(Vista and 7) automatically pack up everything from the existing installation into a new Windows.old folder where you can retrieve data and files from it before sending that on it's way.

Even when performing a fresh clean install of 7 on a fresh primary the Windows installer will automatically create the Windows.old folder which you should have seen when installing the RC. Without replacing one version with a newer one you probably looked at is as an odd empty folder and simply deleted it thinking it was only a temp to install folder at the time.

This was first seen with Vista and carried on with 7 as seen with the MS instructions for removal. How to remove the Windows.old folder that is generated when you perform a custom installation of Windows Vista

 

[johnhoh]

I have a personal habit, whenever I am about to re-format my OS drive, I copy every single directory and file off of it, to an external HDD. So that after I have installed the new OS, I can dig back through the old one for any configuration files, etc, that I need to manually recover and stick back where they need to be.

That's a very useful and basic thing to do that has worked on every PC everywhere for 25 years until now, when it doesn't. If microsoft made a car they would weld the hood shut and call it a safety feature so that you cannot screw up the engine, and half of the people on this board would agree.

If you can ever get "copy c:\*.*" to really work, please post a how-to.

 

[zigzag3143]

Administrator is not the full powerful user group as you think it is. SYSTEM account is what has root power. System Volume Information contains system sensitive files there is nothing in there you actually need to see or copy. As for Document and Settings folder it is but a junction to the Users folder. Review the permissions assigned to this folder, the "Everyone" account is listed with a single DENY permission. This folder is best discarded along with the rest of the junctions.

Yes you are right, there is a single deny permission for Everyone... but my admin account has identical permissions to the system account (nothing denied), and I cannot access the folder with the admin account. Even the everyone account has "read" permissions to it.

Assuming there is something I could do with a system account but not an admin, how do I become system?

You cant become system. You can take ownership. Im surprised it hasnt been suggested. win 7 has folders that are simply pointers for older applications. One folder like that is the application data. its locked, the newer apps install into the app data folder which isnt locked. are you sure y ou need the locked folders since win 7 deals with these in different manner?

If you still feel you need to here is take ownership shortcut instructions http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/1911-take-ownership-shortcut.html?ltr=T

Hope this helps

Ken

 

[Antman]

...If microsoft made a car they would weld the hood shut and call it a safety feature so that you cannot screw up the engine...

Rolls-Royce, Bentley..

...If you can ever get "copy c:\*.*" to really work, please post a how-to.

Roadkil.Net

 

[The111]

I have a personal habit, whenever I am about to re-format my OS drive, I copy every single directory and file off of it, to an external HDD. So that after I have installed the new OS, I can dig back through the old one for any configuration files, etc, that I need to manually recover and stick back where they need to be.

That's a very useful and basic thing to do that has worked on every PC everywhere for 25 years until now, when it doesn't. If microsoft made a car they would weld the hood shut and call it a safety feature so that you cannot screw up the engine, and half of the people on this board would agree.

If you can ever get "copy c:\*.*" to really work, please post a how-to.

Thank you for apparently being the first to understand my point. To everyone who says I "shouldn't need" anything out of the directories I'm having problems with, you're wrong. C:\Windows, for example. I needed my color profiles out of there. Fortunately I have them backed up elsewhere. But when going through and "manually choosing" what to back up, there is always the risk of forgetting something (as I forgot my color profiles when I formatted last night, but again, luckily I had them elsewhere)... so it is always safer to just copy everything and LATER pick and choose what you need. To not be able to copy data from one disk to another is simply idiotic.

 

[The111]

are you sure y ou need the locked folders since win 7 deals with these in different manner?

Maybe I don't need the locked folders, but they ruin the whole copying operation if I don't manually exclude every single one, including ones inside buried subfolders. If I hit CTRL+A and try to copy all, the operation will just "end" as if it grabbed it all, and will have missed all sort of contents, even buried subfolders I won't know I'm missing until I try to find them later. It's incredibly stupid.

 

[Antman]

Roadkil.Net

.

 

[The111]

Thanks for the link, Antman. I'm not at my 7 PC now, nor do I have an immediate need for the tool anymore, but I will try it out one day, next time I am at this junction.

 

[Night Hawk]

I have a personal habit, whenever I am about to re-format my OS drive, I copy every single directory and file off of it, to an external HDD. So that after I have installed the new OS, I can dig back through the old one for any configuration files, etc, that I need to manually recover and stick back where they need to be.

That's a very useful and basic thing to do that has worked on every PC everywhere for 25 years until now, when it doesn't. If microsoft made a car they would weld the hood shut and call it a safety feature so that you cannot screw up the engine, and half of the people on this board would agree.

If you can ever get "copy c:\*.*" to really work, please post a how-to.

Thank you for apparently being the first to understand my point. To everyone who says I "shouldn't need" anything out of the directories I'm having problems with, you're wrong. C:\Windows, for example. I needed my color profiles out of there. Fortunately I have them backed up elsewhere. But when going through and "manually choosing" what to back up, there is always the risk of forgetting something (as I forgot my color profiles when I formatted last night, but again, luckily I had them elsewhere)... so it is always safer to just copy everything and LATER pick and choose what you need. To not be able to copy data from one disk to another is simply idiotic.

With 7 it's simply easy enought to see an entire system image created and later restored once a fresh installation goes on. You can also schedule a backup of everything you actually need without manually trying to copy every folder. There are also drive imaging programs which will simply the process as well.

By color profiles does that refer to custom themes?

When using the Windows Easy Transfer tool to try it out on the entire content of the present host OS drive being 7 and performing a fresh test install of 7 on another drive to run the restoration there every file, folder, and even wallpapers previously set on the host with DisplayFusion used for the dual monitor setup here appeared on the second test drive showing the tool automatically backed up and restored all user accessible files and settings on the test copy there.

Even custom folders were copied intact apart from the ones the Windows installer as well as program installers create. The best possible move however is backing things up as you go along.

You won't want to copy everything and try to restore it later if the system goes down with some virus! That would only reinfect the same on a clean copy of Windows.

I know one person who just lost everything when reinstalling Windows on a prebuild for not backing things up as you go along rather then one large copy attempt at everything. Windows crashed and the drive was reformatted for fresh install. The scheduled backup wasn't verified once done to see if everything was actually backed up.

Save a new file? Save it twice once to a custom folder on a second partition or drive in case of mishap with the first! You can always retrieve the second saved file if needed.