Solved Multi Boot computer - how to keep data and programs in sync

[Anak]

Hi MarkusGE, welcome to 7F!

Busy day here for me, give me sometime to digest what has transpired so far in your thread. Greg mentioned about junction points in his request for more help, they can be delicate in how they are used and I will have to brush up on them.

I'm also a train buff/spotter and would like to know more (eventually) about the interesting train links in your opening thread/first paragraph, but that's for later, have you heard about MERG?

 

[MarkusGE]

Hi MarkusGE, welcome to 7F!

Busy day here for me, give me sometime to digest what has transpired so far in your thread. Greg mentioned about junction points in his request for more help, they can be delicate in how they are used and I will have to brush up on them.

I'm also a train buff/spotter and would like to know more (eventually) about the interesting train links in your opening thread/first paragraph, but that's for later, have you heard about MERG?

Thank you for the welcome, Anak


My days are going to become busier, too, starting TUE, when my 1.5 weeks compensatory time-off ends, and usual Red-Cross-EMT everyday life kicks back in. So, expect my progress to be slower and replies to show at a smaller rate than currently

It´ll be interesting to read any additional info on junctions

_____________________________________________

WRT to the train links: Open Rails (ORTS) is a free, open source train simulator, meant to run with Microsoft Train Simulator (MSTS) content, and eventually replace that nearly 15-yr-old program. V1.0 has been out for about a month now

Elvas Tower (ET) is a forum dedicated mostly to train simming, but also contains loads of info on real railroads. Plus, it is the home forum of the Open Rails development team, where most dev and debugging talk (the public also take a role in that, as beta-releases are published FRI evening (UTC) every week) takes place. I´m a member of the ORTS Dev Team myself, though only as a translator (English->German).

MERG has been mentioned once or twice as a resource of info on (guess what) model railways, but I have never really looked at it (I have no model railway myself). Some of the members at ET, however, seem to have a deep interested in model railways.


Cheers, Markus

 

[Anak]

My pleasure,

Still busy, just updating to your reply, I do some of my best work in the wee hours.....

No problems in the incongruity of replies, I've answered to threads that were weeks if not months old until the thread starter was able to get back, yes, life tends to work that way. The light is always on, post when you can.

I mentioned Merg because I have an interest in HO model railroading and I have explored using it on my layout. My signature picture is a shot I took of the Rockville bridge that is five miles North of me.

Now, where's those Junction links? :shock: This may help as a primer: http://MKLINK vs. Junction.exe | superuser.com/, there is additional information in the "Further Reading" links at the bottom of the page.

There are at least five different types of junctions, if you haven't mentioned it earlier (my apologies, I haven't read through your thread yet), what are you trying to accomplish?


Related:
http://Rockville-Bridge-Harrisburg | www.steamphotos.com

 

[MarkusGE]

[...] My signature picture is a shot I took of the Rockville bridge that is five miles North of me.

Now, where's those Junction links? :shock: This may help as a primer: http://MKLINK vs. Junction.exe | superuser.com/, there is additional information in the "Further Reading" links at the bottom of the page.

There are at least five different types of junctions, if you haven't mentioned it earlier (my apologies, I haven't read through your thread yet), what are you trying to accomplish?


Related:
http://Rockville-Bridge-Harrisburg | www.steamphotos.com

Rockville Bridge sure is a massive building, with a fascinating history. Must be a great location to railfan. Thanks for the links


WRT to junctions: What I´m trying to accomplish is synchronizing (parts of) my C:\Users\markus\AppData folders between the two OSes (win7 Pro, Win8.1) on my new dual-booted computer, so that files physically saved in any of the two location are available in the other location.


Cheers, Markus

 

[Anak]

Markus, did you solve your situation? I see the thread is marked solved.

If not see if this tutorial by one of our members will help: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/278262-mklink-create-use-links-windows.html

If you have more questions you can always post to that tutorial.

 

[MarkusGE]

Markus, did you solve your situation? I see the thread is marked solved.

If not see if this tutorial by one of our members will help: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/278262-mklink-create-use-links-windows.html

If you have more questions you can always post to that tutorial.

The question about links and junctions and how they could be applied to synchronize to OS' AppData folders is not yet solved. This question, however, was not the initial intent for which I posted this thread. And since this intent - collecting information on what´s safely possible - has already been fulfilled, I marked the thread as solved. The rest is all experimentation, and thus not safely possible, which does not conform with my initial intent.

Thank you for the link. In fact, this tutorial explains things I already know from your previous links. This method of creating links mentioned therein, however, is new to me. I always use said LinkShellExtensio, for it´s simply GUI method

Cheers, Markus

 

[gregrocker]

Please unmark the thread Solved. I have asked others to take a look at this thread if you would like some collaboration.

 

[Anak]

Did you see this link in post #2 of the tutorial? Junction Link Magic

It only goes to win7 but it might be backwards compatible if installed in your 8.1 with compatibility to 7, on the other hand, it might still work if installed in your win7pro.

 

[MarkusGE]

Please unmark the thread Solved. I have asked others to take a look at this thread if you would like some collaboration.

Done.

Did you see this link in post #2 of the tutorial? Junction Link Magic

It only goes to win7 but it might be backwards compatible if installed in your 8.1 with compatibility to 7, on the other hand, it might still work if installed in your win7pro.

Yes I saw it. However, those very same features are included in a program I have already installed, called "Link Shell Extension" by Herman Schinagl (it´s also mentioned in the page for Junction Link Magic)

Cheers, Markus

 

[MarkusGE]

I tried linking the AppData folders of two installations of the same program (Pale Moon web browser) using a Junction from the Win7 installation´s AppData first two my Data drive, and from there to my Win8 installation´s AppData.

It did not work, because both OS' "home drived" are invisible to one another. I probably won´t go any further with this experiment, then, as making them visible to one another bears a high risk of getting into the CHKDSK problem.

Cheers, Markus

 

[GokAy]

Move them to a 3rd NTFS data partition and create a junction in both OSs. Also add everyone full control explicitly. See if this will help?

 

[MarkusGE]

Move what to a third partition? AppData?

Cheers, Markus

 

[GokAy]

Yes the appdata (at least the ones you are trying, no need to move everything right now) , sorry I wasn't very descriptive.

- Move PaleMoon appdata to a data partition
- give everyone - full control for appdata folder in properties - security

 

[lehnerus2000]

Profiles.ini

All you have to do with Firefox/Pale Moon is:

• Copy your FF/PM profile to a shared drive
• Edit the "profiles.ini" file to show the correct path
• Repeat for your other OS

In W7 you can find the Pale Moon "profiles.ini" file here:

C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon\profiles.ini
​

If everything works correctly you can delete the original profiles (if you want).

Remember that backing up your OS partition will no longer backup your FF/PM profile though (depending on how you perform backups and your system setup).
I have my profiles on my Documents partition, so they get backed up when I back up that partition.

Note:
There may be issues if you try to do this with Windows and a Linux Distro as some FF/PM add-ons don't seem to be available for both operating systems.
Last time I tried this was a few years ago, so it might not be an issue now.

 

[MarkusGE]

Yes the appdata (at least the ones you are trying, no need to move everything right now) , sorry I wasn't very descriptive.

- Move PaleMoon appdata to a data partition
- give everyone - full control for appdata folder in properties - security

AFAIK, that does not work without moving the whole user profile folder, which is not recommended at all...

All you have to do with Firefox/Pale Moon is:

• Copy your FF/PM profile to a shared drive
• Edit the "profiles.ini" file to show the correct path
• Repeat for your other OS

In W7 you can find the Pale Moon "profiles.ini" file here:

C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon\profiles.ini
​

If everything works correctly you can delete the original profiles (if you want).

Remember that backing up your OS partition will no longer backup your FF/PM profile though (depending on how you perform backups and your system setup).
I have my profiles on my Documents partition, so they get backed up when I back up that partition.

Note:
There may be issues if you try to do this with Windows and a Linux Distro as some FF/PM add-ons don't seem to be available for both operating systems.
Last time I tried this was a few years ago, so it might not be an issue now.

I´ll have a look at it. Thanks for bringing this up

Linux doesn´t matter to me in this case, because this computer is Win7+Win8 dual-booted only

Cheers, Markus

 

[MarkusGE]

I did the Palemoon profile thing a little more sophisticated


Let me explain my reasoning first: I use Palemoon´s dedicated profile backup tool to create backups archives (in archive form, they cannot be edited so easily as if simply doing a copy). This tool, however, will only work on the standard profile location, which I tried to keep, thus.

This was achieved by creating a subfolder "Profiles" in the Palemoon installation directory, and copying "C:\users\Markus\AppData\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon" there. I then deleted the folder in the original location, and replaces it with a directory junction that links to "<PaleMoonInstallationDirectory>\Profiles\Pale Moon", which should no also trick the profile backup program.


In conclusion, placing a junction to a programs AppData folder on the data partition while in Win7, and expecting that junction to work when in Win8, if Win7´s home partition is hidden to Win8, will not work. Moving the program´s AppData folder to the data drive, placing junction from that new location to the one it should usually reside in (AppData), then booting into the other OS, deleting the copy of the program´s AppData folder there and replacing it with a junction to the copy on the data partition, will give the desired results


Cheers, Markus

 

[MarkusGE]

Hi All,

it has been some time since I last posted here, and much has happened in this time. In fact, this post was typed on the new PC already.

also, in the meantime all programs I need have been installed and properly customized (settings etc) and all Data has been copied over and re-organized from the old PC The old PC has been relegated to secondary service, so to speak, being used only when away from home or when the new PC is busy doing e.g. virus scans.

So far, everything works fine. Most data and programs reside on the Data partition, all progs are usable on both OSes (except for cases that are incompatible with one OS). All data is shared between OSes, including program data saved in C:\Users\<username>\AppData.

This was done by moving the AppData folders to a subfolder in the programs actual installation location on the Data partition, and making this moved folder available again in AppData by putting a junction there.


Also, the Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos folders (and a few more) of both OSes have been moved to the Data partition, and reside in one place for both OSes (IE, they are merged). No problems there whatsoever as well


That all said, after a lot of a hassle, this has really turned out great. THANK YOU ALL here who helped me with their thoughts, experience, and knowledge, to achieve something that has been said had not been tried this way yet! Yes, it works!



Of course, no solution that does not bring along another problem - how to backup this machine PC?

I have thought about many variants ranging from relying on a full drive image (small in size if compressed, easy to reinstate, but individual files cannot be retrieved) to relying on simple copy backups (not taking care of link structures, cannot be used to restore the system), and everything in between. Thinking through all that, I´ve come to realize just how hard it is to find a backup strategy that meets the demands of requiring a practical amount of space, providing the ability to restore the complete system as well as retrieving individual files, being easy to create, possibly by a free program, and - of course - being easy to re-instate should the complete internal harddrive of the computer fail. A lot of demands, I know.

The attachment shows what the partition layout on the PC looks like.

All partitions except for the "System Reserved" one are "interconnected" by some sort of links, mostly junctions. This structure shall be preserved in the backup, of course (which prevents me from using a simple copy´n´paste backup, among other concerns).

What would you recommend to do about this?

Cheers, Markus

 

[GokAy]

Hey, great to hear it worked

I use Acronis to image Win7 and Win10 partitions. And it works alright. Macrium can do this as well and both can mount their image files to extract individual folders/files if need be.

 

[MarkusGE]

Hey, great to hear it worked

I use Acronis to image Win7 and Win10 partitions. And it works alright. Macrium can do this as well and both can mount their image files to extract individual folders/files if need be.

Can those programs image a whole disk (no only partitions)? With Paragon Backup and Recovery 2014 Free, I can select a complete (physical) disk and all the partitions defined on it to be packed into a VHD file.

Also, with Macrium, do you refer to Macrium Reflect Free, or a payware version?



In the meantime, I have thought a bit about what my backups should be able to do, and how his could be achieved.

I currently have one 2 TB external HDD, of which roughly 500 GB are used to store data stored nowhere else (mostly old, archived pictures, some movies, and rarely used content for games I once played - nothing I access often). In order to back up both my new PC (the dual-booted one - ~930 GB actual disk size) and my old PC (~460 GB actual disk size), I will need another external HDD, for sure. I will get that one tomorrow.

Another 2 TB HDD, will enable me to backup both PCs with complete HDD images created by Paragon Backup and Recovery (the images would amount to a bit less than 1400 GB). Also I could backup the content from the existing 2 TB HDD that is not saved anywhere else (simple copy-n-paste operation - about 500 GB). And, there would still be space for a file level backup of the new PC done with Hardlink Backup (another 900 GB max, probably - that backup will vary in size).


This strategy caters to all demands - But will I be safe his way?


Cheers, Markus

 

[GokAy]

Is yours a business PC? Macrium should be free for personal/home users only, Paragon may be so too. But I am referring to free version.

Macrium lists the partitions and you can image the whole disk or individual partitions to a single file.

Imaging is costly due to space requirements, instead only image the System Reserved , EFI (if there are) and the OS-partitions. Rest can be managed by a file/folder sync program (I prefer FreeFileSync). And you should calculate the used space instead of disk sizes. Let me give you an example (how I do it):

C (System-Windows 7): 63/100GB
D (Games): 1.7TB/1.8TB - Steam Library and Virtual Machines
E (Games): 1.1TB/1.2TB - Steam Library and User Files
G (Backup):x/600GB
H (Games-SSD): 110GB/200GB - Few Games
Un-lettered (Windows 10): 30GB/100GB

I use Acronis (Macrium is the same) to image: C and Windows 10 only:
-- Full backup once a week: 93GB - compressed to 50GB
-- Daily differential: depends on how much has changed: up to 7-20GB weekly
-- So total OS backups: 57-70GB max
-- These are saved internally to G (Backup) drive, I can keep 8-9 generations (weeks) of backups
-- Also copy them to a 1TB external for redundancy

D - E - H: All files are synced to a 3TB E-SATA drive (personal files and mp3 excluded), so, pretty much only Games and Virtual Machines
User Files and MP3 are synced to other smaller drives (160-250GB ones)

I hope you get the idea. And compare to what you have in mind.