Overclocking help; your suggestions, please.

[GARoss]

I used this guide from Arctic Silver to apply to CPU. 1mm line as shown. Hope I got it right!

 

[GARoss]

Here's pics of my current BIOS setting. OC is off. I'm not sure how to get Turbo Power Limit (Watts) back to (AUTO) so I set it near the default of 95 @ 96.

I decided to stay on the recommended conservative side when OCing & followed this guide Gigabyte Sandy Bridge Overclocking Guide. Doing so uses Intel's Turbo Boost Tech only. There wasn't any other configurations in memory or voltage. The author started @ 4.5Ghz whereas I started @4.0Ghz.

Room temperature is 72 F & core temps in idle are running 37-40C.

 

[GARoss]

I'm not sure what TM1 & TM2 are & not seeing anything in HWiNFO32 to explain. On left is the 1st scan taken while testing new build. On right is now & TM1 & TM2 are red. I'm asking if this means anything?

One difference is I changed the rear case fan & also have tried OC'ing (pic on right is with no OC). Is this a concern?

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I nearly mentioned it , but hadn't heard of his cpu cooler.

I have had a quick look at it and it appears to be quite a poor cooler. On the list of approx 50 coolers it was in the bottom 5.

I know from reading certain reviews/comparisons that some coolers can perform worse than the stock cooler on the new sandybridge cpu's.

This could certainly be a possible cause of the high temps , its usually that and voltage to blame anyway.

It isn't a poor cooler.

It does exactly what it is designed to do: provide very low noise levels while cooling about as well or better than the stock retail fan--which has a bad noise profile.

It isn't intended to provide big overclocks.

My system is nearly the same. Stock clock Prime 95 temps with this cooler are about 6 or 8 degrees below the stock Intel cooler (high 60s versus mid 70s). Idle temps are about the same as retail (mid 30s).

The fan on the cooler can be easily replaced with a high RPM 120 mm fan if need be. Any 120 mm fan will fit. That would knock temps down a few degrees, but at the expenses of noise.

If you want cooling performance like a Cooler Master Hyper 212 (for instance), you would have to buy one.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I'm not sure what TM1 & TM2 are & not seeing anything in HWiNFO32 to explain. On left is the 1st scan taken while testing new build. On right is now & TM1 & TM2 are red. I'm asking if this means anything?

One difference is I changed the rear case fan & also have tried OC'ing (pic on right is with no OC). Is this a concern?

TM stands for thermal monitoring. It should say that when you drag your mouse over TM1 and TM2.

Not sure what the red means. It could mean temps are high right now, or it could mean temps have been high in the past when you overclocked. Mine have always been green.

I doubt if your fan change matters significantly.

 

[Fumz]

I used this guide from Arctic Silver to apply to CPU. 1mm line as shown. Hope I got it right!

The idea of paste isn't to add another layer; rather, it's to fill in the microscopic holes left behind during the lapping process. How much paste you use is going to be determined by the quality of your heatsink; specifically, how well lapped the base is. Personally, I find that's a lot of paste. I use an amount that's almost about the size of a small grain of rice, then I rub it in with rubber gloves... or a handy piece of Saran Wrap. When done, the film of paste left is so thin that it's opaque... remember, it's only for filling holes you can't see.

If your heatsink isn't well lapped, and you can feel grooves on the base, then it's really time to consider another heatsink. The amount of paste you need to compensate for a piss poor lapping really isn't worth it... ends up being counter productive.

 

[GARoss]

I used this guide from Arctic Silver to apply to CPU. 1mm line as shown. Hope I got it right!

The idea of paste isn't to add another layer; rather, it's to fill in the microscopic holes left behind during the lapping process. How much paste you use is going to be determined by the quality of your heatsink; specifically, how well lapped the base is. Personally, I find that's a lot of paste. I use an amount that's almost about the size of a small grain of rice, then I rub it in with rubber gloves... or a handy piece of Saran Wrap. When done, the film of paste left is so thin that it's opaque... remember, it's only for filling holes you can't see.

If your heatsink isn't well lapped, and you can feel grooves on the base, then it's really time to consider another heatsink. The amount of paste you need to compensate for a piss poor lapping really isn't worth it... ends up being counter productive.

The smooth surface of the heatsink was polished & mirror-like. I followed the instructions of the thermal paste manufacture, Arctic Silver. My reference of a 1mm line (see the illustration pic I attached in my earlier post) is also Arctic Silver's description of how much to use. Are you suggesting Arctic Silver's recommendation is wrong? :shock:

 

[Fumz]

Are you suggesting Arctic Silver's recommendation is wrong? :shock:

No, something else altogether.

A poorly lapped base is going to require more paste; thus, Arctic Silver takes this into account. I once had a Thermaltake heatsink/fan assembly that not only sounded like an Apache gunship was in my living room, but the base was so pitted and grooved that it doubled as my wife's pedicure scraper.

When she put that bad boy to her heels, the flakes were flyin!

Arctic Silver fudges on the side of caution in order to account for all types of heatsinks... not just the good ones like yours. What they show should work on "any" heatsink. You don't need nearly as much as a crap heatsink.

 

[Dave76]

I think the main issue here is that the idle temps are too high, the cause needs to be determined.

Here is what the idle temps should be.

Intel Sandy Bridge Core i5-2500K & Core i7-2600K Processors Review​

Scroll down to temperature testing



Idle temps should be around 27°C, 37-40°C is just too high.

The most common reasons for this, from my searching and experience, is:
1. Loose CPU cooler, be sure it is secure. Easy test is to try to rotate it, should not move easily.
2. Thermal paste application. The general consensus is less is better. Too much paste will increase temps, as will too little but, that is rarely the case.

I applied thermal paste like Fumz mentioned.
My CM Hyper 212+ gives me 27-30°C at idle, it is considered a good cooler but, there are much better ones available.

 

[GARoss]

A week ago I was proud of my new PC build accomplishment. Now I'm convinced I didn't get something right. But, I'm glad to have the support of this website. Thanks to all.

When I 1st booted this morning, temps were 30-32C idle. After 30 minutes they're 36-39C idle. I'm going to investigate this soon, but, if the fan isn't seated correctly I need to know what to do & what to do it with.

1st, this fan was tough to install (for me at least, a newbe). It overhangs the MB's #1 RAM slot & crowded #2 slot so badly I had to exchange my original RAM choice to a shorter, heatsink type. That being said, maybe a different fan is in order; one with a more positive mount that leaves no doubt if it's seated. This site has quit a list Top 5 Intel & AMD Heatsinks on Frostytech. No doubt louder but cooler.

If I re-install this fan, I'll need to clean both the CPU & heatsink with rubbing alcohol & what; any type cloth or only microfiber? Paper towel is a no-no?

This time use a rice-size amount of Arctic Silver? Should this be wiped evenly or let the heatsink do that?

 

[Dave76]

Here is a pretty good review:

Best Thermal Paste Application Methods​

Best CPU Cooler Performance: Intel Heatsinks Q3-2010​

A little something on thermal paste​

80-way Thermal Interface Material Performance Test​

When you clean the CPU and heatsink use a clean lint free cloth.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

A week ago I was proud of my new PC build accomplishment. Now I'm convinced I didn't get something right. But, I'm glad to have the support of this website. Thanks to all.

When I 1st booted this morning, temps were 30-32C idle. After 30 minutes they're 36-39C idle. I'm going to investigate this soon, but, if the fan isn't seated correctly I need to know what to do & what to do it with.

1st, this fan was tough to install (for me at least, a newbe). It overhangs the MB's #1 RAM slot & crowded #2 slot so badly I had to exchange my original RAM choice to a shorter, heatsink type. That being said, maybe a different fan is in order; one with a more positive mount that leaves no doubt if it's seated. This site has quit a list Top 5 Intel & AMD Heatsinks on Frostytech. No doubt louder but cooler.

If I re-install this fan, I'll need to clean both the CPU & heatsink with rubbing alcohol & what; any type cloth or only microfiber? Paper towel is a no-no?

This time use a rice-size amount of Arctic Silver? Should this be wiped evenly or let the heatsink do that?

If the black pins in the mount all protruded the same length through the motherboard and you heard a click, then your heatsink is mounted correctly. I assume you mounted it outside the case and did a visible verification of the black pins.

I suspect the nuances between a rice size amount and the thin stripe per Arctic Silver instructions are within the margin of error. By that I mean that if it runs cooler or warmer after reapplication, you would be mistaken to draw any conclusions. Likewise on the question of wiping evenly or letting the heatsink do it.

FYI, I got idle temps in the low 30s with the stock cooler in a 72 F room, not in the 20s. My idle temps with the Big Shuriken are about the same. I have never idled in the 20s with any processor or heatsink in 70 plus rooms.

If you are going very far down the overclocking road, get a new heatsink that pays little attention to noise.

My offhand guess as to your current situation is that you have done nothing wrong--your temps are normal for your heatsink/ambient temp situation---and that any readjustment with this heatsink is pointless. I don't see any reason to be unhappy about the build. The only exception is if the heatsink is in fact NOT seated properly---which is a possibility. But your temps are NOT way out of line and don't vary much from mine.

Clean the heatsink with isopropyl and q tips or a clean white cotton cloth. A purist would tell you to use lintless coffee filters.

Most importantly, decide on your commitment to overclocking. If you get into it seriously, get a new heatsink and obsess over temps, voltages, etc. If you don't get into it seriously, I wouldn't change a thing--per the results of your already completed tests.

 

[Fumz]

If you re-apply the paste and your temps drop to normal ranges... and that's the only change you make, then you can draw a conclusion.

The problem with Arctic Silver is that it doesn't come with an adjustable nozzle, and that orange stuff they show in their demonstration is a thinner rail than one can make when using the actual product. It would have been better if Arctic Silver actually used their own product in their product demonstration. :sarc:

Heatsinks don't make noise, only the fans do. Because good heatsinks are so efficient you don't need loud fans like the days of yore. Like I said, at 4.5GHz my load temps are low to mid 50's, and the fan I'm using spins at 1200 rpm. It is, for all intents and purposes, silent.

Summer hasn't even begun... and if your machine is already approaching TM, then it's time to do something. I'm quite sure this will be a painless learning experience.

 

[GARoss]

A week ago I was proud of my new PC build accomplishment. Now I'm convinced I didn't get something right. But, I'm glad to have the support of this website. Thanks to all.

When I 1st booted this morning, temps were 30-32C idle. After 30 minutes they're 36-39C idle. I'm going to investigate this soon, but, if the fan isn't seated correctly I need to know what to do & what to do it with.

1st, this fan was tough to install (for me at least, a newbe). It overhangs the MB's #1 RAM slot & crowded #2 slot so badly I had to exchange my original RAM choice to a shorter, heatsink type. That being said, maybe a different fan is in order; one with a more positive mount that leaves no doubt if it's seated. This site has quit a list Top 5 Intel & AMD Heatsinks on Frostytech. No doubt louder but cooler.

If I re-install this fan, I'll need to clean both the CPU & heatsink with rubbing alcohol & what; any type cloth or only microfiber? Paper towel is a no-no?

This time use a rice-size amount of Arctic Silver? Should this be wiped evenly or let the heatsink do that?

If the black pins in the mount all protruded the same length through the motherboard and you heard a click, then your heatsink is mounted correctly. I assume you mounted it outside the case and did a visible verification of the black pins.

I suspect the nuances between a rice size amount and the thin stripe per Arctic Silver instructions are within the margin of error. By that I mean that if it runs cooler or warmer after reapplication, you would be mistaken to draw any conclusions. Likewise on the question of wiping evenly or letting the heatsink do it.

FYI, I got idle temps in the low 30s with the stock cooler in a 72 F room, not in the 20s. My idle temps with the Big Shuriken are about the same. I have never idled in the 20s with any processor or heatsink in 70 plus rooms.

If you are going very far down the overclocking road, get a new heatsink that pays little attention to noise.

My offhand guess as to your current situation is that you have done nothing wrong--your temps are normal for your heatsink/ambient temp situation---and that any readjustment with this heatsink is pointless. I don't see any reason to be unhappy about the build. The only exception is if the heatsink is in fact NOT seated properly---which is a possibility. But your temps are NOT way out of line and don't vary much from mine.

Clean the heatsink with isopropyl and q tips or a clean white cotton cloth. A purist would tell you to use lintless coffee filters.

Most importantly, decide on your commitment to overclocking. If you get into it seriously, get a new heatsink and obsess over temps, voltages, etc. If you don't get into it seriously, I wouldn't change a thing--per the results of your already completed tests.

If you re-apply the paste and your temps drop to normal ranges... and that's the only change you make, then you can draw a conclusion.

The problem with Arctic Silver is that it doesn't come with an adjustable nozzle, and that orange stuff they show in their demonstration is a thinner rail than one can make when using the actual product. It would have been better if Arctic Silver actually used their own product in their product demonstration. :sarc:

Heatsinks don't make noise, only the fans do. Because good heatsinks are so efficient you don't need loud fans like the days of yore. Like I said, at 4.5GHz my load temps are low to mid 50's, and the fan I'm using spins at 1200 rpm. It is, for all intents and purposes, silent.

Summer hasn't even begun... and if your machine is already approaching TM, then it's time to do something. I'm quite sure this will be a painless learning experience.

You guys are great. I wish I had your knowledge in these matters. But, I've taken the first step & have learned lots.

Here are some pics. The heatsink was fasten properly. Is that too much Arctic Silver?

 

[Fumz]

That is quite a bit of paste. With a quality heatsink like yours, you should not be seeing any "hills", nor should there be so much that it overlaps the side of the cpu. Try using a really small amount, then rubbing it in with a piece of Saran Wrap on your finger, or a rubber glove. There should just be a really thin film... not glops. Recall, it's only there to fill in microscopic holes, it's not there to act as another heatsink.

 

[GARoss]

Thanks. I'm leaning towards a new heatsink but need one that isn't so tall; less than 150mm or about 6". Zalman makes some but I don't need LED lights but they seem good enough. The CM Hyper 212 is great but too tall. And, then they're the hydro-type cools. I only have one rear case fan so I'm not sure if that's doable as the radiator stacks to the back of it.

 

[Dave76]

Agree with Fumz, small even thin layer with saran wrap or rubber glove on your finger.

Anytime you have excess on the sides like that means you have too much paste to start with, I would say half as much might still be too much.

Did you look at the link?
Some good pics of what it should look like.
In one of his tutorials he mentioned that he uses the finger with saran/rubber glove method.
Too much paste will impede the heat transfer, in a perfect world metal to metal contact is best but, not possible to get the perfectly flat, smooth finishes and correct pressure applied, so thermal paste is required.

 

[GARoss]

Agree with Fumz, small even thin layer with saran wrap or rubber glove on your finger.

Anytime you have excess on the sides like that means you have too much paste to start with, I would say half as much might still be too much.

Did you look at the link?
Some good pics of what it should look like.
In one of his tutorials he mentioned that he uses the finger with saran/rubber glove method.
Too much paste will impede the heat transfer, in a perfect world metal to metal contact is best but, not possible to get the perfectly flat, smooth finishes and correct pressure applied, so thermal paste is required.

Yes, I did read it. It seemed one method doesn't fit all types of HS. After illustrating several methods that worked well on some HS but not all, he explained why he felt his method assured full coverage & proper amount. Thin is good.

Actually, I was waiting for feedback but also considering purchasing a different heatsink. It's just a difficult install that I dread doing. I guess I should as least reinstall this heatsink to see if that helps temps before reinvesting in something different. If, for no other reason, it will answer the question if too much paste was the problem.

 

[Dave76]

That's a good idea, re-install the CPU cooler with less thermal paste, you may find that the cooling is good.

 

[GARoss]

I thought I'd post these prior to paste & reinstall. Cleaning the HS has revealed some scuff marks (other speckles are dust); CPU looks OK. Scuff marks are no surprise as this HS was a bit of a wrestling match to install. Hope the paste fills that.