Overclocking help; your suggestions, please.

[GARoss]

Thanks guys. I'll reboot later today.

 

[Dave76]

From post#9

Your CPU spec sheet: Intel Core i5-2500K
The max temp for Tcase (CPU case) is 72.6°C, add 5°C for CPU core temps then 77.6°C is the recommended max core temp.

Incidentally--I've done a little research and from what I can tell, the shutdown temp of the CPU is circa 98; it should begin throttling before that. The "Tcase" temp is supposedly 72 and that is Intel's recommended max LONG TERM temp. I assume that Tcase refers to cores????

According to my brief googling anyway. You could run down the tech documents on Intel.com for the sordid details.

Further research: Tcase temp is 72.6 and is NOT equal to core temps. Rather it is taken from the case surrounding the processor and should be the number referred to as "CPU" in HWInfo32. It's quite close to the core temps, but is a single number rather than 4. Intel apparently does not specify a throttle temp or an absolute shutdown temp, but those temps are believed to be 98-100.

Tcase is max OK long term use temp.

Tcase is the CPU case, have seen many references to the Tcase +5°C for the CPU core max temp.

Intel doesn't openly specify a max CPU core temp or throttle or shutdown temp as you mentioned, must be for legal reasons.
The actual throttle and shutdown temps seem to vary from processor to processor, as would be expected. Info can be found on various OC sites. I do remember seeing an Intel link to an obscure Intel data sheet on this subject, buried somewhere in a 60+ page document.

Intel's max Tcase temp is, of coarse, very conservative.

I think the 98-100°C throttle temp is a generally accepted number used by BIOS companies, which is why most BIOS have different temp options for over temp warnings.
My options are:

CPU Warning Temperature

Sets the warning threshold for CPU temperature. When CPU temperature exceeds the threshold,
BIOS will emit warning sound. Options are: Disabled (default),
60°C/140°F
70°C/158°F
80°C/176°F
90°C/194°F

I am generally conservative on this issue, and follow the rule: electronics + heat = Bad
Always try to get the system at as low temps as possible.

 

[Wishmaster]

After a couple hours of rendering, mine typically stays in the 62-65C range.
You will notice it starts to stabilize itself after a while.


This will be even more so with newly applied Arctic Silver.
If Im not mistaken, AS has a cure time. Unless this has changed, I haven't used it in a while.

So you may very well see those load temps drop a couple degrees in a weeks time when it sets up.

After a night or 2, and a few renders, shut the PC down for the night. It may help it set up a bit.
Basically, give it some time to cure.

Some thermal paste has no cure time. MX-2 for example.


Most Intel CPUs can safely operate at 75C. Although I would by no means consider this ideal.
I would shoot for keeping at 70C or below at full load. Ideally 65ish C.
But, everyone has what they consider to be safe 24/7 load temps. This is just my opinion.

I would go by RealTemp or CoreTemp for reading.

 

[GARoss]

Did an F7 to load optimized defaults; then setup BIOS to the same OC settings I used before. I still had the original 120mm Antec case fan running at HI. It plugs directly into the PSU.

The previous render test was setup by a forum member @ Sony Vegas who uses it as a bench mark. It is designed to push the CPU to the max. A 20 second HD render full of panning, zooming & the most difficult of all to render, text, took 3:16 without OC (3.3Ghz i5-2500K) & 2:54 @ OC set to 4.0Ghz (11.22% faster).

As I'm not a gamer, I used 1 hour of AVCHD & HDV video for 2 separate test renders. Based of the results of the Vegas render, I figured a 1 hour HDV video to take about 3 hours to render. All I can say is video LOVES Intel i5 Sandy Bridge. It rendered the HDV 1 hour video in 88 minutes. It was rendering so fast that the preview screen was black, meaning too many frames to show. AVCHD (H.264 or Mpeg4) was slower but under 2 hours. Temps maxed out @ 64C but remained mostly in the 61-63C range.

I will replace the Antec fan & retry with the newer (& quieter) CoolerMaster 120mm again to see if the MB will regulate it's speed as it should. I bought it thinking when I wasn't pushing the CPU the PC would be relativity quiet. But, while rendering, the fan would kick into HI speed. I think it's stuck on LOW & I believe this to be the reason I've been seeing higher temps (5-6C).

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I used 1 hour of AVCHD & HDV video for 2 separate test renders. Based of the results of the Vegas render, I figured a 1 hour HDV video to take about 3 hours to render. All I can say is video LOVES Intel i5 Sandy Bridge. It rendered the HDV 1 hour video in 88 minutes. It was rendering so fast that the preview screen was black, meaning too many frames to show. AVCHD (H.264 or Mpeg4) was slower but under 2 hours. Temps maxed out @ 64C but remained mostly in the 61-63C range.

I will replace the Antec fan & retry with the newer (& quieter) CoolerMaster 120mm again to see if the MB will regulate it's speed as it should. I bought it thinking when I wasn't pushing the CPU the PC would be relativity quiet. But, while rendering, the fan would kick into HI speed. I think it's stuck on LOW & I believe this to be the reason I've been seeing higher temps (5-6C).

Based on this test, it looks to me like your are good to go for rendering with this heatsink with no further changes. 64 max is OK long term.

Re the fan: I know nothing about the Coolermaster, but it may not be capable of adjusting its speed, regardless of how it is connected.

What is its alleged RPM and how does that compare to the alleged RPM of the Antec fan on high?

Are noise levels OK by you with the Antec on high? If so, that's your fan. If not, you can certainly get quieter fans that move at least as much air at a fixed unadjustable RPM. The Coolermaster may be such a fan, I don't know. If not, any of several Scythe or Noctua fans would suffice. But if the Antec is OK, ride with it and be done.

Is the Coolermaster supposedly a "PWM" fan??

Can you run a render test with the Coolermaster?

 

[GARoss]

It is a PWM fan & is also used with Cooler Master Hyper 212 HS. Model # R4-BMBS-20PK-R0. Max is the same as the Antec, 2000rpm. I'll swap them & re-test.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I wouldn't expect significant differences in cooling between 2 fans of the same diameter spinning at the same RPM.

RE noise: When you get above 1000 rpm, you tend to hear a "whooshing" type noise from exhaust fans. That is not the fan, but rather air turbulence noise resulting from the air being blown through the grill structure. Any fan will do that, quiet fan or not. The only way to avoid that noise is to keep the rpm down to 800 or so or to remove that honeycomb grill structure that you probably have.

I haven't heard you recently comment on noise, so I'm guessing that the Coolermaster and Antec on high are both tolerable.

You might try a render with the Antec on medium or low to see if that makes much of a difference.

I'm not sure myself which fan headers should provide adjustable speeds on Gigabyte motherboards. I have read that PWM control on Gigabyte boards can be a bit shaky.

My intake and exhaust fans are fixed speed, not PWM, so I can't do any really do any PWM experimentation. My CPU fan does adjust speeds from circa 800 to circa 1500.

 

[GARoss]

I wouldn't expect significant differences in cooling between 2 fans of the same diameter spinning at the same RPM.

RE noise: When you get above 1000 rpm, you tend to hear a "whooshing" type noise from exhaust fans. That is not the fan, but rather air turbulence noise resulting from the air being blown through the grill structure. Any fan will do that, quiet fan or not. The only way to avoid that noise is to keep the rpm down to 800 or so or to remove that honeycomb grill structure that you probably have.

I haven't heard you recently comment on noise, so I'm guessing that the Coolermaster and Antec on high are both tolerable.

You might try a render with the Antec on medium or low to see if that makes much of a difference.

I'm not sure myself which fan headers should provide adjustable speeds on Gigabyte motherboards. I have read that PWM control on Gigabyte boards can be a bit shaky.

My intake and exhaust fans are fixed speed, not PWM, so I can't do any really do any PWM experimentation. My CPU fan does adjust speeds from circa 800 to circa 1500.

Just booted with CM fan installed & here's what's happening. It just flutters! I mean it turns about a quarter turn, pauses & repeats - never completing a full turn much less a constant speed. Can this be controlled manually with BIOS? It is a 4 pin that plugs in PWR_FAN2 on the MB which is set to AUTO in BIOS. There's a 3-pin nearby but I'm not sure if that would work with a 4-pin.

I did a short render test with all cores @ 100% & temps reached 63C without rear fan working.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

Just booted with CM fan installed & here's what's happening. It just flutters! I mean it turns about a quarter turn, pauses & repeats - never completing a full turn much less a constant speed. Can this be controlled manually with BIOS? It is a 4 pin that plugs in PWR_FAN2 on the MB which is set to AUTO in BIOS. There's a 3-pin nearby but I'm not sure if that would work with a 4-pin.

I did a short render test with all cores @ 100% & temps reached 63C without rear fan working.

I'm not sure. It may be outright defective or it may be because it is a PWM fan trying to operate on an incompatible header?

I bought fixed speed low noise fans to avoid complications like that. I had read of possible PWM issues and knew if I stuck with the right fan that I would have both low noise and adequate cooling.

In your shoes, I would avoid the Coolermaster if I couldn't get it adjusting speeds easily. I don't think you have any bad BIOS settings re fans, but you might try a "non-auto" setting as a trial. No reason to use the Coolermaster unless the Antec is either too loud or doesn't cool well enough. As I said, I would expect Antec on high and Coolemaster to cool about equally.

Your test without exhaust fan further implies that the choice of exhaust fan isn't critical.

Will the Coolermaster spin without stuttering on ANY header?

 

[GARoss]

Will the Coolermaster spin without stuttering on ANY header?

It's now spinning very slowly; I doubt if it's at the minimum of 600rpm. I'm reading up on MB manual settings.

 

[GARoss]

I assumed if the rear case fan was plugged into SYS_FAN2, a 4-pin connector which the CM is, that it would have MB control of speed. Apparently that isn't the case. The MB manual only mentions the CPU_FAN having MB control. Can this 4-pin be plugged into a 3-pin?

This pic is from the Gigabyte manual. My SYS_FAN2 is @ 384RPM. But, how can this be changed manually? The manual mentions some software Easy Tune6 that can control fans but after install it wont even open.

 

[simmo]

I'd think that the option CPU Smart Fan Enable would have an option for Manual..if it does it may allow you to individually configure Fan speed.
Check for updates for easy Tune and check your Bios to see if it needs to be enabled..probably under a Tools Tab.

4pin to 3 pin..unsure..never tried it on so unable to comment ...Only fan that has PPM ? or whatever is the CPU fan..case/sys fans are set at one speed unless changed in the BIOS.

lol pity there isn't a BIOS standard..mines Asus and slightly different

 

[ignatzatsonic]

You should be able to get the 4 pin to at least spin on a 3 pin header, but the RPM monitoring function will likely be lost.

I'd avoid that Easy Tune app and anything else on the provided CD. Those apps are all known to be shaky or worse.

 

[Dave76]

Agree, ditch the Gigabyte apps.

Try Speed Fan, haven't used it for fan speed control, so can't confirm it will work.

My CM 212 CPU cooler fan works fine, variable speed.
I think simmo is right about the headers that control fan speed, check your manual.

 

[GARoss]

I'd avoid that Easy Tune app and anything else on the provided CD. Those apps are all known to be shaky or worse.

Agree, ditch the Gigabyte apps.

I tried Easy Tune6 & it didn't open. Then reading up on this I ran across a suggestion to check if BIOS has been updated. It could be that Easy Tune would only work with current BIOS, not an outdated one. Current BIOS is F2 & checking with Gigabyte, it was now up to F4. Well, tried to install F4 but it rejected 64-bit. So, I installed @BIOS from Gigabyte (I've used @BIOS with success before) & did an update. It did find F3 so I installed that. Rebooted only to find it wouldn't boot at ALL.
Now what!!!? Kinda panicked after that but wound up posting for suggestions elsewhere at this site. A suggestion was to check the BIOS settings as updates usually revert back to defaults. I should of remembered that! Anyway, new BIOS defaulted Integrated Peripherals/PCH SATA Control Mode to [IDE] instead of AHCI, needed for SSDs. Made the change & it booted fine. Needless to say, no more using Gigabyte's HELPFUL apps. :sarc:

Back to fans. The only differences between CPU_FAN & SYS_FAN2 (see pic) is pin # 4. With CPU it's for speed control & for SYS it's for reserve. Doesn't sound like reserve has anything to do with speed control but could be wrong.

According to BIOS PWR_FAN is running @ about 1500rpms. I figure using the first 3 pins of the CM fans 4-pin connector to plug into SYS_FAN1 as the first 3 do match up properly (see pic).

I'll try Try Speed Fan 1st, then using as a 3-pin.

 

[Dave76]

Reserved means not used, looks like the only variable speed fan is the CPU fan.

Glad your BIOS flash was successful, have never tried @BIOS due to the many warnings on various sites not to use it. The Gigabyte forum moderators say 'Don't use @BIOS'.

It wouldn't startup in IDE mode because the drivers aren't installed, good catch.

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I have my exhaust fan connected by Molex with the separate yellow RPM wire connected to the Sys Fan 1 sensor pin (second from right). The exhaust fan is shown in BIOS as “Sys Fan 1” and in HW Info as “Power” fan with a fixed speed of about 900.

If the mobo connector is used, the fan is shown as Power fan with only 490 rpm in HW Info. So it can be monitored with either connection, but the Molex method shows closer to true RPM.

My exhaust fan is NOT PWM. It's supposedly 800 rpm fixed.

If you connect a PWM fan by Molex, I don't know if you can still adjust fan speed with Speedfan. I tried Speedfan at one time on another motherboard and never got it to work.

What are your remaining problems?? Just getting the Coolermaster to change speeds? Worst case, you ditch it and run the Antec on high or medium?

 

[Wishmaster]

Staying under 65C under a full rendering load is, IMHO, perfect.
Especially if you plan on doing lots of encoding.

 

[GARoss]

Downloaded & installed Speed Fan. Also plugged case fan into SYS_FAN1. Case fan is pumping out air - lots of it. Speed is over 1900rpm - constant. Front fans (2) are about 1400rpm. As far as noise goes it's definitely louder but not as loud with the Antec fan @ max of 2000rpm. I haven't tried Speed Fan to lower speeds.

One difference with the new BIOS is Hardware Info locks up the PC. Can't do anything until I manually reboot; even control/alt/delete wouldn't work. I uninstalled Hardware Info. I don't know if it's worth trying to revert back to BIOS F2. I'm not out of the woods yet!

 

[ignatzatsonic]

I certainly wouldn't flash a BIOS just so I could run a utility program that has substitutes.

What version of HWInfo32 are you running??

I am using 3.7.1.0 dated March 22, 2011 with an F4 BIOS, without issues.

Have you tried to freshly install HWInfo32 after you last updated your BIOS?

Are you satisfied no further cooling issues?